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Old 12-18-2013, 02:22 PM   #1
Rose5000
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Default how do you change a default expectation?

Our kids love the show Wild Krats. It is on 2 times per day in our area. THe kids expect to watch it both time by default. The 2nd time is starting to cause problems and interfering with a schedule I am trying to create and enforce with my dc. How to "write it out of the schedule"--i.e. move away from it being the expectation that they will watch it at 4:30?

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

Here are Dh's words , but they are a little intimidating to me. Would they be to you?
Or doyou have so much confidence you could pull this off? I don't know i just think well the way he paints the picture sounds like "you better not do it w-r-o-n-g!" do you hear that in these words of his?


"You would need to announce it formally.
Have a Family Meeting.
Tell about it before implementation time.
Something like "starting Monday..."
You have to replace it with something like [doing something fun with mommy during that time] [or some other preferred activity]
you cannot make it arbitrary.
you must be prepared for them digging in their heels
You must be determined to put up with whatever they give you.
YOU HAVE TO BE COMMITTED TO IT!!!!
It should be Firm, Thoughtful, Advanced Decision Making.
You must ask yourself Am I willing to be firm?
If not ---then don't even change it.
When the kids squawk, you can say, Remember? we had our meeting? this is the way it's going to be now.
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Old 12-18-2013, 03:27 PM   #2
forty-two
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

I would do something similar to your dh, except that I would probably skip the family meeting bit and go straight to doing a fun, kid-approved activity that starts *before* TV time and goes straight through it, hoping that in the moment they forget about their show. When they *do* realize they missed it, then I'd do a straightforward explanation about why the change, asking for input about how to make it work best for them, while being firm about the basic no more second show time.

With my dc, I'd tell them about my schedule, why I think it's a good thing for all of us, and how it just doesn't work with the second tv time. I'd emphasize they still get the first time, and I'd be open to modifing my schedule in whatever ways both worked for the kids *and* for my goals in making the schedule in the first place. If it were an acceptable option, I'd suggest they tape the show and watch it at a better time, because that's pretty win-win. If that's not an acceptable option, I'd be ready to explain why, because my dc would almost certainly suggest it right off.

And yeah, I'd be ready to reflect and validate their upsetness while still holding firm to my belief that this new schedule is worth it - that it is better for everyone, or is flat out necessary, or whatever reason I have that I am going to do this. I would also make a strong effort to work with them to find ways to make the change at least palatable for them, if not pleasing, listening to them and making any and all changes they suggest that wouldn't mess up the whole point for the schedule change. But kids sometimes get stuck on one option, and if they refused to accept anything other than the previous status quo, then, well, either it's worth it or not.

I *do* change my mind in the moment if I realize that it's not worth it after all - because often it isn't . Yes, it lets my kids know that I will change things if they are upset enough, but I don't think that's a *bad* message to send at all. Because I care about their welfare, and that means respecting their views and taking them into consideration as much as possible. And I think that evidence that I am willing to work with them in most things most of the time helps in the times when I decide, after consideration, to *not* change course even when they are very upset. It certainly helps *me* to retain the courage of my convictions anyway.

Any of that help?
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

Yes, helpful. But I'm not so verbal as you and it would be hard for me to pull that all off. My son argues before about 2 sentences get out of my mouth. Your way of making it palitable to your dc was much more than 2 sentences and maintaining "the floor" is something very hard for me with this "debater" son of mine, lol. Also, I like what you said about letting their upset cause you to reconsider *sometimes* and *that* helps you later.....I can see how that helps. I just have to make sure I am not letting the upset I am "caving" to be a true rage that my son often exhibits, huh.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

If you aren't that great at holding the floor, maybe it would help to find a way of dealing with your ds's debating that doesn't require you to hold the floor .

One way that comes to mind is if you said your one or two sentences, and then let him have a one-sided debate, with you listening but not responding beyond standard "I'm listening" noises and body language, let him have his say for either as long as he wants or for a specified time (maybe set a timer), and at the end of it give a brief recap of his points, say you will consider it and give him an answer later (perhaps at a defined time, like the next morning), and then do just that. Consider his ideas on your own, at leisure, and then tell him what you decide in just a few sentences.

And if he wants to debate, you can repeat the above process till either he gets tired or you decide to put a stop to it, declaring this decision closed.

In any case, you can let him have his say without engaging him in debate, if you don't want to - if you do better listening and thinking before saying a little, then go right ahead and do just that . Just because he wants an answer Right Now doesn't mean you have to figure one out right now, if that doesn't suit you - it's perfectly valid to listen and tell him you will think about it and decide later .

Any of that help?
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

IME, changing a default expectation takes TIME. I think that's probably the reason your dh is epmasizing committment--your kids probably WILL fuss, complain, and throw fits over the new schedule. BUT, it sounds like this schedule is important to you and you believe that it's important to your dc's health too.

In general, making a rule is not a good idea if you're not willing or able to enforce it. So, the question is are you willing and able to enforce this? If so, I see no reason not to do it. Personally, I wouldn't engage debate about it. You don't have to do this 'just right' and just because dc have big feelings about it and say you're unfair or whatever doesn't mean that they're right. There will probably be a hump of big feelings and disappointment and then they'll get used to the new expectation.

I would, for your dc, do an announcement about the new plan the day before so that they know what to expect. Your dc are old enough that I think that's important.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose5000 View Post
Our kids love the show Wild Krats. It is on 2 times per day in our area. THe kids expect to watch it both time by default. The 2nd time is starting to cause problems and interfering with a schedule I am trying to create and enforce with my dc. How to "write it out of the schedule"--i.e. move away from it being the expectation that they will watch it at 4:30?

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

Here are Dh's words , but they are a little intimidating to me. Would they be to you?
Or doyou have so much confidence you could pull this off? I don't know i just think well the way he paints the picture sounds like "you better not do it w-r-o-n-g!" do you hear that in these words of his?


"You would need to announce it formally.
Have a Family Meeting.
Tell about it before implementation time.
Something like "starting Monday..."
You have to replace it with something like [doing something fun with mommy during that time] [or some other preferred activity]
you cannot make it arbitrary.
you must be prepared for them digging in their heels
You must be determined to put up with whatever they give you.
YOU HAVE TO BE COMMITTED TO IT!!!!
It should be Firm, Thoughtful, Advanced Decision Making.
You must ask yourself Am I willing to be firm?
If not ---then don't even change it.
When the kids squawk, you can say, Remember? we had our meeting? this is the way it's going to be now.
I think what your dh said sounds fie. It's about the only way it's going to work. They won't NOT notice, and t hey deserve to be told in advance, and he's right about filling that time with something else fun and equally preferred. And he's right that they will backlash at you and you need to be prepared so you dont go all reactive, and swing punitive/permissive. It makes sense to me.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

I'd just say "starting x day we will no longer be watching tv at y time. That includes the 4:30 Wild Kratts." and then don't turn the tv on.

I don't replace things like that with fun things because the reason I cut them out is because the kids are relying on that external whatever... We might do fun things during that time, but not because I cut out tv.

But do be prepared for backlash. It might not happen immediately, especially if you say that you are going to see how this schedule works. But it will happen if you stick to it. Then it'll go away.

I do agree that if you already are thinking that you'll back down then I'd decide if it's truly important. You are the mother. It's your job to do things for their benefit, even if it turns out that it wasn't. A week of standing up against the fight isn't going to hurt anyone. Then you can evaluate how things are going.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

Your DH has a straightforward and slightly tactless way of expressing himself, but I don't think there is anything wrong with his actual advice -- it's just that he isn't saying it like "advice" so that rubs me the wrong way.

If you want the show gone, you can make it happen, but it isn't going to be without protests or consequences. If you only want to eliminate the show if it can be done painlessly, don't bother. It can't be done painlessly, and there's no sense going around the merry-go-round if you are just going to end up backing down.

I don't think it needs to be quite as "formal" as a meeting, but announcing the change in advance (with concrete clarity about when it is going to start) is a good way to cut down on the intensity of the children's reactions. Having another plan for that time frame is also good advice. (Doing 'nothing in particular' instead of the show is likely to make their reactions worse.)

I don't like his characterization about the children 'squawk' - ing... but the truth is that you are the boss of the TV, and they've only got words.

You are the decision maker, and if you can just feel fine about your choice and do what you think is best -- then it honestly doesn't matter if they feel the need to 'say some words' (or get fussy, or meltdown) about the situation. It's a done deal. They are also free to have feelings and say words about not wanting the sun to set, but their words aren't going to change what happens. It's easy. You simply don't regard it as a debate, because the issue isn't up for debate. It's just kids having a few moments of self-expression -- which they are welcome and entitled to. No issue to you at all.
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MomtoJGJ View Post
I'd just say "starting x day we will no longer be watching tv at y time. That includes the 4:30 Wild Kratts." and then don't turn the tv on.

I don't replace things like that with fun things because the reason I cut them out is because the kids are relying on that external whatever... We might do fun things during that time, but not because I cut out tv.

But do be prepared for backlash. It might not happen immediately, especially if you say that you are going to see how this schedule works. But it will happen if you stick to it. Then it'll go away.

I do agree that if you already are thinking that you'll back down then I'd decide if it's truly important. You are the mother. It's your job to do things for their benefit, even if it turns out that it wasn't. A week of standing up against the fight isn't going to hurt anyone. Then you can evaluate how things are going.
Even on a day when son says, I'm watching wild krats at 4:30, he will forget and do somthing else during that time..

I like that you don't feel the obligation to replace with something fun just becuz you took away the tv.

fact is that 430 tv show hasn't been watched consistently because since september daughter's behavioral therapist is sometimes here at that hour and it interferes. sometimes i say to them, "tv goes off at 4;30 because Patty is coming"; other times I let it stay on and the therapist has to somehow woo daughter away from the TV at 4:45 because that is when she is done taking her notes and is ready to work with dd. .

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

i forgot to say the reason I needed to ask how to change this expectation was because I was in the process of trying to write up a schedule for my homeschooled son's day and when I came to 4:30 slot I felt worried about reaction if/when he saw that I didn't write "wild krats" at 4:30. this entire matter really DOES come down to my ability to take the guff when they don't like something I do.

Last edited by Rose5000; 12-21-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:22 AM   #10
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolt. View Post
Your DH has a straightforward and slightly tactless way of expressing himself, but I don't think there is anything wrong with his actual advice -- it's just that he isn't saying it like "advice" so that rubs me the wrong way.

If you want the show gone, you can make it happen, but it isn't going to be without protests or consequences. If you only want to eliminate the show if it can be done painlessly, don't bother. It can't be done painlessly, and there's no sense going around the merry-go-round if you are just going to end up backing down.

I don't think it needs to be quite as "formal" as a meeting, but announcing the change in advance (with concrete clarity about when it is going to start) is a good way to cut down on the intensity of the children's reactions. Having another plan for that time frame is also good advice. (Doing 'nothing in particular' instead of the show is likely to make their reactions worse.)

I don't like his characterization about the children 'squawk' - ing... but the truth is that you are the boss of the TV, and they've only got words.

You are the decision maker, and if you can just feel fine about your choice and do what you think is best -- then it honestly doesn't matter if they feel the need to 'say some words' (or get fussy, or meltdown) about the situation. It's a done deal. They are also free to have feelings and say words about not wanting the sun to set, but their words aren't going to change what happens. It's easy. You simply don't regard it as a debate, because the issue isn't up for debate. It's just kids having a few moments of self-expression -- which they are welcome and entitled to. No issue to you at all.
I KNOW THis is old, sorry, but I read your post again, Pam, and I really see that my problem is I have trouble making up my mind and being firm.....when I hear the meltdowns, then I question my very choice ......the kid's crying makes me doubt myself.....

anythoughts?
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

If your son was two, and sticking a fork in an electric socket, and you took the fork away and covered the socket, and he had a fit, would you give him the fork back and let him stick it in the socket so he wouldn't be sad any more? I wish I could help you get out of the mindset that somehow your kids being unhappy or even mad at you is bad. It's part of parenting!! Kids like to do awesome fun things that are unacceptable for a variety of reasons. It's our job to show them that, just because I want to do something, just because something looks awesome and fun, doesn't mean it's safe, or healthy, or morally correct, or in my best interest. Sometimes, as with the fork in the socket, that's going to make them mad! Heck, just last night I got to listen to my fifteen year old DD wail her way around the house for almost an hour because I wouldn't give her money for today because she didn't do cleaning stuff I asked her to do. Oh my goodness, you'd have thought someone killed a whole basket of kittens in front of her the way she was carrying on . But ultimately it's my job to be the parent. If I had given her the money, just to make her stop flipping a witch, I teach her 'you get whatever you want without any contribution on your part. Your emotions are weapons to be used to control other people.' Neither of which are life lessons I'm interested in instilling.

YOU ARE THE ADULT

YOU ARE THE PARENT

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO KEEP YOUR CHILDREN HAPPY 100% OF THE TIME

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Old 10-22-2014, 11:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose5000 View Post
I KNOW THis is old, sorry, but I read your post again, Pam, and I really see that my problem is I have trouble making up my mind and being firm.....when I hear the meltdowns, then I question my very choice ......the kid's crying makes me doubt myself.....

anythoughts?
Is this something you've addressed with your therapist? It can be.

Basically, you've got to take the line that *you are not responsible for other peoples' feelings.* You are responsible for your actions.

So assess what the correct action is, and then do it. When your children get upset about it, that doesn't make your decision incorrect--it just means that they're upset. But sometimes you KNOW that they will be upset about it ahead of time, right? You KNOW that limiting screen time or treats or whatever is likely to cause upset. So when the upset happens...you can just use it as confirmation that you were *right* to make the decision.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: how do you change a default expectation?

Previous posters are very right, it is not your job to be responsible for everyone's feelings all the time and other people's actions may or may not have anything to do with you. Even being a gentle parent doesn't mean that your children will be happy 100% of the time, we are still *parents* and part of the job of parents is to disciple their children--- part of that is teaching them how to handle disappointments. No, they will probably not be thrilled by the new family rule, however, you can do things that may make it an easier transition; definitely don't try to have quiet, downtime during that 4:30-5:00 time period, engage them in helping prepare dinner or have a music party while any tidying up gets done or whatever that is active and will get them doing something besides thinking about how they are missing the show. Perhaps, you would be willing to compromise with them, maybe during the school/work week it's too much to have that time be tv, but Friday evening would be appropriate? Perhaps, that half hour a day of tv they are "losing" during the week could add up to a family movie night on Saturday?
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  • Page Generation 0.14895 seconds
  • Memory Usage 8,096KB
  • Queries Executed 16 (?)
More Information
Template Usage:
  • (1)SHOWTHREAD
  • (1)ad_footer_end
  • (1)ad_footer_start
  • (1)ad_header_end
  • (1)ad_header_logo
  • (1)ad_navbar_below
  • (1)ad_showthread_beforeqr
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_sig
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_start
  • (4)bbcode_quote
  • (1)cyb_flashimagebanners
  • (1)footer
  • (1)forumjump
  • (1)forumrules
  • (1)gobutton
  • (1)header
  • (1)headinclude
  • (1)navbar
  • (3)navbar_link
  • (60)option
  • (13)post_groan_box
  • (1)post_groan_javascript
  • (1)post_groan_navbar_search
  • (13)post_thanks_box
  • (22)post_thanks_box_bit
  • (1)post_thanks_javascript
  • (1)post_thanks_navbar_search
  • (9)post_thanks_postbit_legacy
  • (13)postbit_legacy
  • (13)postbit_onlinestatus
  • (134)postbit_reputation
  • (13)postbit_wrapper
  • (4)showthread_bookmarksite
  • (1)smqre_editor_button
  • (1)spacer_close
  • (1)spacer_open
  • (1)tagbit_wrapper 

Phrase Groups Available:
  • global
  • inlinemod
  • postbit
  • posting
  • reputationlevel
  • showthread
Included Files:
  • ./showthread.php
  • ./global.php
  • ./includes/init.php
  • ./includes/class_core.php
  • ./includes/config.php
  • ./includes/functions.php
  • ./includes/class_hook.php
  • ./includes/functions_notice.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner.php
  • ./mobiquo/include/classTTConnection.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner/head.inc.php
  • ./includes/functions_bigthree.php
  • ./includes/class_postbit.php
  • ./includes/class_bbcode.php
  • ./includes/functions_reputation.php
  • ./includes/adminfunctions_template.php
  • ./includes/functions_misc.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_thanks.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_groan.php 

Hooks Called:
  • init_startup
  • cache_permissions
  • fetch_postinfo_query
  • fetch_postinfo
  • fetch_threadinfo_query
  • fetch_threadinfo
  • fetch_foruminfo
  • style_fetch
  • cache_templates
  • global_start
  • parse_templates
  • fetch_musername
  • notices_check_start
  • global_setup_complete
  • showthread_start
  • template_groups
  • template_safe_functions
  • template_compile
  • showthread_getinfo
  • forumjump
  • showthread_post_start
  • showthread_query_postids
  • showthread_query
  • bbcode_fetch_tags
  • bbcode_create
  • showthread_postbit_create
  • postbit_factory
  • postbit_display_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_end
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_start
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_end
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_start
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_end
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_start
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_end
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_start
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_end
  • reputation_image
  • postbit_imicons
  • bbcode_parse_start
  • bbcode_parse_complete_precache
  • bbcode_parse_complete
  • postbit_display_complete
  • error_fetch
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_start
  • post_thanks_function_show_thanks_date_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_end
  • tag_fetchbit_complete
  • forumrules
  • showthread_bookmarkbit
  • navbits
  • navbits_complete
  • showthread_complete