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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:54 AM   #1
zak
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Default feeding schedules - a question

So... the whole infant feeding every 4 hours thing... it's got me thinking.

Do these PDF people continue to control food/times as the child ages and eats solids and snacks? Do they tell their 2 yo they cannot have a snack because "it's not time"?


Just curious... I've never read any Ezzo stuff and this thought just popped into my head.
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

I think it really, really varies a lot, depending on how broadly the parents buy into the parental control aspect.

And I wanted to clarify something---under the Babywise plan, newborns are expected to feed every 2 1/2 to 3 hours. From there the time between feedings increases, but I wanted to make sure you and others reading here do know it's not a "4 hour schedule" from the start, and some mothers who know their breastfeeding facts (or lost their milk with a previous baby) take the position that they will stick with a 3 hour schedule for the duration, hoping that will be sufficient.
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Old 02-03-2006, 02:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Is it 2 1/2 hours from start to start or is it 2 1/2 hours from the end of the first nursing session to the start of the next? Just curious. I haven't read babywise but thought I had heard that. It would make a big difference between what they call 2 1/2 hours to what I would call 2 1/2 hours (from start to start).
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Quote:
Is it 2 1/2 hours from start to start or is it 2 1/2 hours from the end of the first nursing session to the start of the next? Just curious. I haven't read babywise but thought I had heard that. It would make a big difference between what they call 2 1/2 hours to what I would call 2 1/2 hours (from start to start).
Depends on which edition you read. *wink*

Both are referenced in Prep for Parenting, 5th ed, 7th printing, summer 1997, pg 114: "The time between feedings can be measured from the beginning of one feeding to the beginning of the next, or from the end of one feeding to the end of the next." On page 27 of the outline guide, "For the first four to five weeks: . . . the usual time between each nursing period should be no less than 2 1/2 hours from the end of your last nursing period to the beginning of the next. Any time increment between the 2 1/2 hour mark and 3 hours is acceptable." (Bold in original.) Similarly on pg 28 of the outline guide, "Between weeks five and eight: . . . each nursing period should be no less than 2 1/2 hours and no more than 3 1/2 hours from the end of the last feeding to the start of the next."

I believe that in the latest editions it's standardized, from beginning of one feeding to beginning of the next feeding. But I haven't read all the notes and outlines to be able to state that is the case categorically.



For us the goal that was communicated in the baby and toddler materials was three meals a day with the family, and perhaps a before-bedtime nursing/snack/glass of milk. The focus was *family mealtimes* and predictability. That said, a mid-morning snack or mid-afternoon snack could be incorporated into a toddler/preschooler routine. (Hmm. . . which ended up as more times for eating for toddlers than 4-month-olds, who in one edition, were having four feedings, four hours apart. . .) Even though routine and predictability were stressed as important, on at least one of the toddler tapes (and perhaps in the book, but I remember it on a toddler issues tape) snacks were taught as "extras" and toddlers shouldn't feel they are "owed" a snack--so mid-morning/mid-afternoon snacks were optional. Confused yet?

Anyway, the over-arching theme that was communicated in theses materials was that if a parent can control a child's routine, a child's environment, a child's relationships, a child's behaviour--then the child would be better placed to have his heart in a good place.

Oh, my FTT son quickly gained weight when I stopped nursing and started feeding him high-calorie formula (still, idiotically, on the Ezzo routine) and the pediatrician no longer was worried and monitoring his growth after several months. About a year later, however, we moved and had a new pediatrician who was also concerned with his growth, and my son was placed on a high-calorie, nutrient dense diet. Yup, we had always done the "full feedings" that are stressed in Ezzo's materials. But my son needed more frequent feedings as an infant and toddler (but I didn't see that then--I thought that the Ezzo routines were healthiest. . .)





(Elizabeth and Kathy--there is an Ezzo phrase I'm thinking of that I can't remember. . . I know you know what I'm talking about. . . Something related to having moral momentum, not having spiritual inertia, ready to receive the Gospel. . . what is it?)
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Quote:
Elizabeth and Kathy--there is an Ezzo phrase I'm thinking of that I can't remember. . . I know you know what I'm talking about. . . Something related to having moral momentum, not having spiritual inertia, ready to receive the Gospel. . . what is it?)
Is it regarding feeding? Maybe 'metobolic chaos'?
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Thanks ladies. I just thought - hmmm, I wonder what happens when the child is actually *asking* (not that they aren't asking by sucking hands, rooting, crying, etc) if the parent just gives them what they want when they want it.

There have been many Ezzo followers on a birth club board I frequent whos children have been eating every 4 hours for many months (our babies are all 10-11 months old now). So, some of these kids are/were nursing/bottle feeding 4 times a day. So it made me wonder... I eat "meals" - but I also snack. And if I'm hungry, I eat. My son nurses every 2 hours on average still. Day and night. I'm sure they think I'm crazy. What? Nursing your child 12 times a day? AND hardly any solids?

I could talk in circles until I'm so confused about these thoughts... I was just curious about toddler "parent directed feedings" and if there was such a thing.

So crazy to control food like that...

Thanks for the input.
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Quote:
Is it regarding feeding? Maybe 'metobolic chaos'?
Noooo. . . I'm thinking more the "big picture" discipline thing that the parent-controlled feedings are just the beginning of. . .

I bet I can find it. . . But it soooo bugs me that I can't remember.

(Maybe that's a good thing? *g*)
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Quote:
And if I'm hungry, I eat.
Add to that that it is there only source of liquids, so imagine being thristy before schedule!
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Yeah, Elizabeth, if I think about it too much I'll start to get really sad for those poor babies.

So the whole idea of control - eating and napping and sleeping at night - it's all part of the *big* picture - through infancy into toddler years and beyond?

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Old 02-03-2006, 07:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Ahhh. . . I was thinking of the phrase and Ezzo idea of "spiritual inertia":

To quote Gary Ezzo:

Quote:
"positive parental behavior creates a type of spiritual inertia. In other words,
once the parents have instilled biblical patterns into their child, their training
should carry him to the point where God's spirit will take control of the reins
of his heart. Without sufficient spiritual inertia generated in the formative
years (birth through twelve), the child will ultimately limit the influence of God in his life."

Ie, control your baby's schedule, control your todder's environment, control your child's influences--and then "God's spirit will take control of the reins" and your child will be a Christian.

Yup.

Weird theology at best. And this underlying control focus is seen throughout the Ezzo books, from the infant materials all the way through to the sex ed materials.
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Well silly, you said spiritual inerria in your question. I thought you were looking for something else.
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

that is just bizarre--truly bizarre. The idea that if you control your child's caloric intake you can make them a Christian is UNBiblical at best
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Is Ezzo also one who recommends against drinking too much water at mealtimes? When I went to an Ezzo followers home they made their kids (prescooler and toddler) ask before they drank out of their cup?
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Quote:
When I went to an Ezzo followers home they made their kids (prescooler and toddler) ask before they drank out of their cup?
Never heard it by Ezzo specifically, but it rings true for the 'control' mentality.
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: feeding schedules - a question

Quote:
Do these PDF people continue to control food/times as the child ages and eats solids and snacks? Do they tell their 2 yo they cannot have a snack because "it's not time"?
I did. When I had just one child. Thank Goodness the next one came when dd was 2. It was a lot of work keeping everyone on the same hunger timetable. By the time #3 came, I was over that!!

Maybe not all Ezzo parents do that, but I was one of the legalistic, perfectionist ones...
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