Talk to Me About Not Spanking and How.

[JenniferJuniper]

Alright ladies, I'm ousting myself.
I was (am?) a firm believer in spanking - I grew up with infrequent spankings; I remember a few, but my Mum was always calm when she did it, and explained to me why she did afterward, and I always got warned before it happened.

When people would talk to me about spanking I would easily and honestly say: "I needed it." I knew I was the kind of kid who who only refrain from doing X if I knew I was going to get a spank. Having my Mum sit down with me at 3, and explaining the situation wouldn't stop me, I know myself enough to know that.

So what do I do? What if I get a child like me?
Miss E is too tiny to even think about spanking, but what about when she is three?

How do I *not* spank?

((All this being said, I know spanking is hardly a 'catch-all' for discipline for all kids. My brother could care less about a spank, but to put him alone in his bedroom for a few minutes was torture!! So I do know that different things work for different children.))

Peace,
-Jenny

[ArmsOfLove]

The best way for you to start is to spend time reading in the Gentle Discipline forum. You can also check out my site at www.aolff.org. There's a reading list in the FAQ for the GD forum.

This site is against punishment--not just spanking--so the answer isn't finding other things that make them miserable There is no reason to try and make a child suffer as though that is the only way they can learn.

ETA: Discipline means to teach . . . so you teach.

[Marzipan]

If you're interested in behaviour training, sure, spanking can work. If you're wanting to disciple your children, spanking is counter productive. (I'll bbl to add more.) eta: so I'm late enough that probably someone else has said everything I would have said. My husband said the same thing as you "I needed those spankings" or "I deserved them." And I was pretty pro spanking too. In fact, after I joined this forum (EIGHT years ago, yikes!), I remember praying specifically for discernement before I ventured in to the GD forum, because I was afraid of being brainwashed in to not spanking my kids. Turns out the more I read, the more it made sense, for me and for dh. Discipling someone requires a close and trusting relationship, and IME as a child, a spanking never fostered trust between my parents and me. They were (still are) fantastic parents, but it is because of all the things they did in the million moments they weren't spanking, not becaues of the spanking.

[ArmsOfLove]

When people would talk to me about spanking I would easily and honestly say: "I needed it." I knew I was the kind of kid who who only refrain from doing X if I knew I was going to get a spank. Having my Mum sit down with me at 3, and explaining the situation wouldn't stop me, I know myself enough to know that.

You didn't *need* a spanking. You needed a mother who would make her words have meaning and move you and make it happen. 3 yo's can't be reasoned with--that would be permissive. But hitting a child is never warranted

If the only reason you didn't do something was to avoid a spanking then you didn't learn anything of value from the experience.

[Peridot]

just offering a word of encouragement- YOu will make it. Keep searching and you will gather the tools u need.


I'll be back with more myself- tomorrow.

[allisonintx]

Forget about the "how" for a minute, find the book "Heartfelt Discipline" and get your brain around the "why" first. Once you have the reasons, the practicalities are much easier.

[nanookmama]

I've wondered that myself, OP. I was a VERY difficult child. But honestly, I think I was difficult because my parents were doing battle with me. Every day. "Making" me do what they wanted me too. And I am uninterested in spending the rest of my parenting years in a war.

So, for me, a big key was realizing that 'do it or I'll hit you' and 'don't do it or I'll hit you' were just not useful for teaching my daughter to discipline herself. They weren't going to teach her the things I want, they were only going to start a war.

My older daughter is me. The harder I push to make her obey, the stronger and longer she fights. The transformation is amazing. But when I stop pushing her, and just talk to her or remove her from whatever she can't resist, we transform right back into a working dyad. And that's what works really well for us.

I'm not saying you were as bull-headed as I was, but I've come to believe that a parent sets a standard and the child learns to follow. If you obeyed when your mom spanked you it's because that's what you learned as a boundary - and that's what she had expected from you. I am simply not going there with my kids, so I expect them to meet me somewhere else. So far, so good!

[staceylayne]

I've never been a spanker, but instead of spanking I was just looking for "other ways" (timeouts, losing toys or not reading books at bedtime) to show B he had done wrong and make him sad/miserable enough that he wouldn't repeat certain behaviors. He was young and I knew we couldn't logic our way into him deciding to do differently, so I thought it was our job to train him to obey "right away, all the way, in a joyful way" even if he didn't understand why quite yet. If he didn't learn early, it would surely set him up for failure...right?

I also grew up with occasional spankings and I never held (and still don't hold) any bitterness or anger with my parents for how they parented us. They did their best with what they had and our lives were overall covered in so much love, respect and care from our parents that we came out ok (IMHO ).

Anyway, DH and I have come a long way in how we think about parenting in the last couple of years. The best way for me to summarize my current understanding is that I think my job as a mom is all about *teaching* my children. I am teaching them how to eat with a fork, to say "please", to recognize colors and letters, how to handle big feelings without hurting others, to be patient, to not scream in the car, to tie their shoes.

ALL of those things are skills they will need for a successful life. All of them can and will be learned when parents model them and patiently and gently teach necessary skills. These things cannot and will not be learned until the child is developmentally and emotionally ready. Just like I wouldn't spank or shame my child who is having trouble learning to read and expect it to help, I don't punish a child who is having trouble learning to accept "no" without whining. I strive to *teach* the desired behavior. We work on it, I prove that whining doesn't get you what you want, I offer suggestions for better ways to respond, and give opportunities to practice etc.

Like you will read around here "you can't spank the three out of a 3yo". Can you modify some behavior of a 3yo with harsh punishments? Yes, but not because the child has internalized why they should make good choices...just that they've learned to avoid pain. And even spanking isn't fool proof. Three year olds are emotional and impulsive. That is how God made them! That's why people have to spank (or give time outs or whatever) over and over and over again. Just like I have to stop my 3yo from screaming in the baby's face over and over and over again.

I hear all the time from my punitive friends about how important it is to "be consistent" with punishments and eventually it will get through to the kid. And that used to make SO MUCH sense to me! But now I hear it with different ears. I've heard lots of things like "around 4.5 or 5 all of mine finally caught on that obeying is easier" (this as an encouragement to a mom of a 2 or 3yo why she must continue to be consistent). I will submit that it is less the consistency of punishments and more the fact that by 4.5 the children are beginning to develop maturity and impulse control that they simply did not have at 2 or 3.

Anyway...I'm probably rambling (happens a lot ). But I hope something I said resonates or clarifies things a little. There is so much good information around here. I lurked for months before joining and read every new post and tons of archived posts in the GD and UP forums. Sometimes I felt like my head would explode with all the "weird" and upside down ways of looking at things I read here. And for months my mind was spinning as I started down the path of the big paradigm shift. But it's not all warm fuzzy "we don't want to hit our babies!" stuff. Gentle discipline makes sense! And it works! It has brought so much peace and joy to our home, it has brought DH and I closer as we learn about parenting together and has strengthened our bonds with our children. They are precious, wild, funny little people who, just like me, are doing the best they can with the tools that they have. I'm constantly striving to give them better tools.

Gah! Rambling again! Done. (For now.)

Thanks for being brave enough to ask. I hope you find the answers you are seeking.

[sweetpeasmommy]

You are going to have to rethink everything. For example

My brother could care less about a spank, but to put him alone in his bedroom for a few minutes was torture!! So I do know that different things work for different children.

I wouldn't call that "working". Finding the thing that would most upset him probably didn't help him learn anything from the experience. Since discipline is about TEACHING not punishing, you teach your child how TO act keeping in mind what is normal for their developmental stage. You won't be able to teach a 3yo how to be logical since their brain hasn't acquired that ability yet. There's a reason they don't come out 3 yo yk?

I suspect as you grow as a parent alongside your child you may find that how your parents parented didn't "work" as well as you thought. I used to think no harm was done by being spanked as a child. Until

I spanked my child for the first and last time and found myself filled with rage. I realized that I was never taught to actually deal with my emotions. I realized that I could actually hurt this child that I loved because it certainly wasn't teaching him a thing other than to fear me. I realized that there HAD to be a better way and I needed to find it.

I had a lot of growing and reparenting myself to do to grow into the parent I was meant to be. There is a lot of support here for others on that same journey.

[JoEllen]

Reading up in the Gentle Discipline forum is extremely helpful.

For me personally, it helps to pretend that the word "spanking" isn't even in the dictionary. That forces me to get off my butt, redirect, make it happen, reset, or do whatever else I need to do to fix the situation.

Spanking may cure the symptoms, but it doesn't cure the disease. A spanking will teach your child what not to do, but that's only half of the problem. You've forgotten to teach them what to do.

[staceylayne]

When I was first lurking around here and just beginning to wrap my brain around the idea of gentle discipline this thread was very helpful to me.

So helpful that I just spent about an hour trying all manner of search queries to track it down. Maybe some things there will speak to your heart where you are on your journey?

[Zooey]

Originally Posted by nanookmama

I've wondered that myself, OP. I was a VERY difficult child. But honestly, I think I was difficult because my parents were doing battle with me. Every day. "Making" me do what they wanted me too. And I am uninterested in spending the rest of my parenting years in a war.

So, for me, a big key was realizing that 'do it or I'll hit you' and 'don't do it or I'll hit you' were just not useful for teaching my daughter to discipline herself. They weren't going to teach her the things I want, they were only going to start a war.

My older daughter is me. The harder I push to make her obey, the stronger and longer she fights. The transformation is amazing. But when I stop pushing her, and just talk to her or remove her from whatever she can't resist, we transform right back into a working dyad. And that's what works really well for us.

I'm not saying you were as bull-headed as I was, but I've come to believe that a parent sets a standard and the child learns to follow. If you obeyed when your mom spanked you it's because that's what you learned as a boundary - and that's what she had expected from you. I am simply not going there with my kids, so I expect them to meet me somewhere else. So far, so good!

[Bolding mine].
Being spanked made me (A) hit back, (B) bite, & (C) scream so people heard me all up & down the street. That's when the spankings ceased.

Or I could easily have been another kid beaten to death....

[TenderLovingWillow]

These ladies have lots of good things to say.

The change in perspective is so, so important. Without that, you just find new way to exact pain, revenge, ect from your child. I am still working on this myself, because I still get upset and my first thought is "I have got to MAKE him OBEY ME.. NOW!" and then all reason leaves.

It does get easier with time though, and it takes a lot of re-parenting--Yourself.

[StoryOfGrace]

As others have said, self evaluation of what you learned from spanking may be eye opening for you. I know it was for me.
When I joined GCM a year ago (awe it's been a year ladies! ) I would have easily said this:

When people would talk to me about spanking I would easily and honestly say: "I needed it." I knew I was the kind of kid who who only refrain from doing X if I knew I was going to get a spank.

Several times in the past (pre-kid, oddly enough ) I've argued for spanking saying how I was the "type of kid who needed it." After self-reflection and evaluation of what spankings taught me, I know now that it's not true.

Spanking and punishment taught me to:
-Lie. "I'm sorry I made you mad Mom. I'm sorry I did X." Really, I wasn't sorry. I just didn't want to be in trouble any more. I distinctly remember several times where I apologized and didn't mean it, just so I could get out of the punishment.
-My feelings didn't matter. I was just "the kid" and had no right or reason to be heard or understood.
-I deserved to be hurt. What a horrible dynamic to teach a child...really, think about it.

I could go on, but those are the big ones.
Another thing I consider:
My DS goes to play school a couple of days a week. They have a very positive discipline approach to dealing with all the children in their class. I figure, if they can get X number of kids to behave so well without punishment or spanking, then I can do the same with one.

[filmgirl2911]

subbing, because the mamas who are chiming in here are the mamas I find to be wonderful mentors in gentle mothering

this thread is full of posts I want to revisit