Gothard resigned - Page 3

Soliloquy · 06-24-2015, 05:35 PM

That is what Shelia Gregoire wrote about. If men are the ultimate earthly authority and women are subservient, eventually you become corrupted.

Dovenoir · 06-24-2015, 08:04 PM

Crap. I know him.

Soliloquy · 06-24-2015, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dovenoir

Crap. I know him.

Gothard?

Or the other guy?

Dovenoir · 06-24-2015, 08:52 PM

Kenneth.

I went to the Harding mentioned in the article. And I went to informational meetings about the prison ministry. One of my friends has at least 13 years invested in it.

MissusLeata · 07-10-2015, 06:11 AM

I really wouldn't worry about Gothard's comeback. He has a small group of super loyal followers, but I don't think he'll get many more.

The new ATI leadership is actually warning people to not even try to talk to him as they deem him unrepentant. If ATI survives all of the lawsuits they are facing, I think it'll come out a different organization.

The new ATI president was a friend of my hubby's years ago and he was in our home a few months ago. We talked for hours about the problems and when we started talking of the bad theology in the material, his wife got out a pen and started taking notes.

They are really trying and want to right the wrongs.

Maedchen · 07-10-2015, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissusLeata

The new ATI president was a friend of my hubby's years ago and he was in our home a few months ago. We talked for hours about the problems and when we started talking of the bad theology in the material, his wife got out a pen and started taking notes.

They are really trying and want to right the wrongs.

Ok, I really am not meaning for this to sound snarky. My chronic fatigue is off the charts today and I can't think how to phrase this, but if they are taking over ATI, then wouldn't they already know what is in the books in the theology? If they don't know what scriptural theology the business stands for, why would they take it over?

rjy9343 · 07-10-2015, 09:59 AM

That's really good news. It would be wonderful if a real reformation came out of all of this. I really hope it happens and that ATI becomes something so much better than it was.

---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maedchen

Ok, I really am not meaning for this to sound snarky. My chronic fatigue is off the charts today and I can't think how to phrase this, but if they are taking over ATI, then wouldn't they already know what is in the books in the theology? If they don't know what scriptural theology the business stands for, why would they take it over?

Not necessarily, I was home schooled and only had a vague idea of what was in it. I grew up around it, but not with it. On the surface, it sounds like a really good and Godly thing. I can see someone taking over ATI under the impression that the message is sound, it is just the leader that needed to go.

MissusLeata · 07-10-2015, 10:06 AM

The man who took over was never an ATI student. He worked in local offices and then was over a Training Center and then a missionary. He did the missionary work with ATI, but didn't give them much control (intentionally). His wife was a student, but often older students didn't do the school work.

There were times when I pointed out a teaching and he'd think it had presented differently and his wife would say, "No, she's right." Sometimes, you just need someone to connect the dots.

I don't really know what will happen. There are pending lawsuits that could be the complete end of ATI....or they might be able to re-structure it. My hubby is trying to keep doors open with the new leadership (we've been out for years and vocal in our opposition) because they do seem really willing to hear about the problems.

Maedchen · 07-10-2015, 10:08 AM

I hope it changes.

RJY, oh I understand at first it sounds good. I would just think if you are in ministry, you would know what the organization teaches before you actually took the job. (sorta like the Pope taking over at the SBC and being surprised that they do not use a Rosary.)

Looks like they would already know that the only reason you are sick is because you have sin in your life and you just need to stay in a room and pray until you are better and not take medication...........that just seems like a huge thing not to know.

rjy9343 · 07-10-2015, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maedchen

I hope it changes.

RJY, oh I understand at first it sounds good. I would just think if you are in ministry, you would know what the organization teaches before you actually took the job. (sorta like the Pope taking over at the SBC and being surprised that they do not use a Rosary.)

Looks like they would already know that the only reason you are sick is because you have sin in your life and you just need to stay in a room and pray until you are better and not take medication...........that just seems like a huge thing not to know.

Depends on the spin they got. If they didn't grow up in it, just around it they could think that illness needs prayer and medication. It's also possible they think that all illness is demonic in nature and medicine does not do any good. Or maybe they do have an idea of what's in there but they want to change it and give families truth and hope.

BarefootBetsy · 07-10-2015, 01:19 PM

Oh wow. The new leaders sound promising!

It's possible, with less extreme folks taking over ATI, that the more extreme folks would simply splinter off and continue with the extreme beliefs, but then maybe the extreme stuff at least would stop being so mainstream

MissusLeata · 07-10-2015, 02:59 PM

Some things have, reportedly, been changed already. When I was in ATI, students as young as 14 were sent to Training Centers, even overseas, for months at a time to work. The new President's wife didn't even know that happened, though she was a student, and they've made it so that you have to be an adult to work for them.

One of the areas that some of the worse teachings came in was through the "Basic Care" Department. That whole department has been closed down.

They want to provide homeschool support without the "non-optional" teachings...they see them as possibly helpful suggestions.

But not all former ATI students trust the new leadership. We've had really good experiences with the new president. My husband and I both knew him years ago and see a huge change in him. But time will tell how much that changes the system, if it survives all the lawsuits.

Maedchen · 07-10-2015, 05:27 PM

It is a start and sounds promising!

Those that have been hurt by ATI in the past will need to watch and wait because of overcoming deep hurt.

As to some being sent overseas in the past, I always thought that it was just in the USA. That sounds more like how the Mormons do the mission trips they are required to do. (GOthards rules sound more like FLDS)

MissusLeata · 07-10-2015, 06:36 PM

There were lots of overseas trips. My sister met her hubby in Russia. My husband served there several times and also went to Mongolia and Taiwan with ATI. There were trips to New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Peru and Mexico.

In Russia, they had a Training Center that had some of the worst abuse that you can imagine. It was awful!

My sister's health was destroyed while serving in Russia. And many other girls suffered the same fate. They worked their "help" into adrenal exhaustion.

06-24-2015, 05:35 PM	#31
Soliloquy Rose Garden Why climb a mountain? Because it's there! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Selkirk Mountains Posts: 52,860	Re: Gothard resigned That is what Shelia Gregoire wrote about. If men are the ultimate earthly authority and women are subservient, eventually you become corrupted.

06-24-2015, 08:04 PM	#32
Dovenoir Rose Garden Dove - noir Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cincy, OH Posts: 5,600	Re: Gothard resigned Crap. I know him. __________________ Lyz

06-24-2015, 08:52 PM	#34
Dovenoir Rose Garden Dove - noir Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cincy, OH Posts: 5,600	Re: Gothard resigned Kenneth. I went to the Harding mentioned in the article. And I went to informational meetings about the prison ministry. One of my friends has at least 13 years invested in it. __________________ Lyz

07-10-2015, 06:11 AM	#35
MissusLeata Rose Bouquet Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 520	Re: Gothard resigned I really wouldn't worry about Gothard's comeback. He has a small group of super loyal followers, but I don't think he'll get many more. The new ATI leadership is actually warning people to not even try to talk to him as they deem him unrepentant. If ATI survives all of the lawsuits they are facing, I think it'll come out a different organization. The new ATI president was a friend of my hubby's years ago and he was in our home a few months ago. We talked for hours about the problems and when we started talking of the bad theology in the material, his wife got out a pen and started taking notes. They are really trying and want to right the wrongs. __________________ Wife to my man since 2005. Mommy to 3 boys and 1 little girl.

07-10-2015, 10:06 AM	#38
MissusLeata Rose Bouquet Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 520	Re: Gothard resigned The man who took over was never an ATI student. He worked in local offices and then was over a Training Center and then a missionary. He did the missionary work with ATI, but didn't give them much control (intentionally). His wife was a student, but often older students didn't do the school work. There were times when I pointed out a teaching and he'd think it had presented differently and his wife would say, "No, she's right." Sometimes, you just need someone to connect the dots. I don't really know what will happen. There are pending lawsuits that could be the complete end of ATI....or they might be able to re-structure it. My hubby is trying to keep doors open with the new leadership (we've been out for years and vocal in our opposition) because they do seem really willing to hear about the problems. __________________ Wife to my man since 2005. Mommy to 3 boys and 1 little girl.

07-10-2015, 10:08 AM	#39
Maedchen Rose Trellis Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2,482	Re: Gothard resigned I hope it changes. RJY, oh I understand at first it sounds good. I would just think if you are in ministry, you would know what the organization teaches before you actually took the job. (sorta like the Pope taking over at the SBC and being surprised that they do not use a Rosary.) Looks like they would already know that the only reason you are sick is because you have sin in your life and you just need to stay in a room and pray until you are better and not take medication...........that just seems like a huge thing not to know.

07-10-2015, 01:19 PM	#41
BarefootBetsy Rose Garden "You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be." Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seeking Simplicity Posts: 12,684	Re: Gothard resigned Oh wow. The new leaders sound promising! It's possible, with less extreme folks taking over ATI, that the more extreme folks would simply splinter off and continue with the extreme beliefs, but then maybe the extreme stuff at least would stop being so mainstream __________________ Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world.

07-10-2015, 02:59 PM	#42
MissusLeata Rose Bouquet Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 520	Re: Gothard resigned Some things have, reportedly, been changed already. When I was in ATI, students as young as 14 were sent to Training Centers, even overseas, for months at a time to work. The new President's wife didn't even know that happened, though she was a student, and they've made it so that you have to be an adult to work for them. One of the areas that some of the worse teachings came in was through the "Basic Care" Department. That whole department has been closed down. They want to provide homeschool support without the "non-optional" teachings...they see them as possibly helpful suggestions. But not all former ATI students trust the new leadership. We've had really good experiences with the new president. My husband and I both knew him years ago and see a huge change in him. But time will tell how much that changes the system, if it survives all the lawsuits. __________________ Wife to my man since 2005. Mommy to 3 boys and 1 little girl.

07-10-2015, 05:27 PM	#43
Maedchen Rose Trellis Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2,482	Re: Gothard resigned It is a start and sounds promising! Those that have been hurt by ATI in the past will need to watch and wait because of overcoming deep hurt. As to some being sent overseas in the past, I always thought that it was just in the USA. That sounds more like how the Mormons do the mission trips they are required to do. (GOthards rules sound more like FLDS)

07-10-2015, 06:36 PM	#44
MissusLeata Rose Bouquet Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 520	Re: Gothard resigned There were lots of overseas trips. My sister met her hubby in Russia. My husband served there several times and also went to Mongolia and Taiwan with ATI. There were trips to New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Peru and Mexico. In Russia, they had a Training Center that had some of the worst abuse that you can imagine. It was awful! My sister's health was destroyed while serving in Russia. And many other girls suffered the same fate. They worked their "help" into adrenal exhaustion. __________________ Wife to my man since 2005. Mommy to 3 boys and 1 little girl.

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