Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo?

arymanth · 10-15-2010, 07:16 PM

Someone on another parenting board I'm on has been recommending seminars by someone named Kitty Raymond. I had never heard of her, so I looked up her website here: http://raymond parenting.com/ (link broken)

At first glance it wasn't too bad, but the more I read, the worse it got. It really sounds like an updated version of Ezzo's materials. Has anyone else heard of her??? I have spent the past two days arguing with a woman who is convinced that Kitty is a saint, and that I don't know what I'm talking about because I haven't been to the seminars.

Here is Kitty's "advice" on how to get a 5 month old to take longer naps:

" ...the method for lengthening his naps will be to leave him for a full nap time (2 hours) even when he starts crying after 45 minutes. He isn’t finished sleeping and therefore is crying. Given enough opportunities, he’ll eventually learn how to get himself back to sleep to finish off the nap."

From her page on "Discipline"... scripts of things to tell your child:

"It's really important for the door to stay closed (locked) all night long in order to keep you safe. I'll open it at breakfast time."

"I know it's hard to go to bed wometimes but your smart body knows when it is tired. I love you and I'll see you in the morning."

"It's OK to cry because crying will actually help you fall asleep sooner."

Apparently she advises parents that a baby over 12 pounds does not need to eat at night, and they are just waking out of habit. That might explain the numerous comments by parents whose babies are dropping off the growth charts, but they still insist they are "just following their own curve".

I am so frustrated from reading this woman's advice, I just want to beat my head against a wall.

Anyone else familiar with her????

Llee · 10-15-2010, 07:50 PM

Oh. My. Word!

That is so truly bad, i just can't even understand how she can live with herself. And wow! Just, wow! My mom was appalled at the advice to lock your child in their room each night.

I must admit though, that I am apparently in the wrong field for making money. I would like to teach a seminar where I could get $85 per family. Just 10 families and holding the seminar twice a month and our house would be paid off...

Hermana Linda · 10-15-2010, 10:40 PM

Thank you for the heads up.

Something to be aware of.

Sparrow · 10-15-2010, 11:17 PM

Thinking of the comment on the 12 lbs baby..... My 28 lbs. 2 y/o still wakes to nurse at night, not because he's hungry, but because he needs the comfort, or needs a drink..... don't you sometimes need a glass of water at night?

hey mommy · 10-15-2010, 11:19 PM

yowzers... That is scary stuff...

CelticJourney · 10-16-2010, 04:12 AM

Wow! Definitely thanks for the information.

Locking children in a room at night is a huge danger in case of fire and even if baby doesn't need to 'eat' they do need to 'drink'.

Carmen · 10-16-2010, 04:41 AM

Thanks for the info.

Wow, I just cannot understand leaving a little person locked in their room. It just breaks my heart to think of babies crying and no one is there to pick them up.

BarefootBetsy · 10-16-2010, 09:07 AM

Wow... that is... disturbing

ThreeKids · 10-16-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arymanth

"It's really important for the door to stay closed (locked) all night long in order to keep you safe. I'll open it at breakfast time."

Using a "for your safety" lie to manipulate a child -- you can never really explain why and it leaves the issue of safety vague and uncontrollable.

ClassicMom · 10-16-2010, 02:07 PM

Thanks for letting us know about this. I am

w/the comment about how a child/baby isn't done napping if it's been less than 2 hours. Everyone needs a different amount of sleep, including children. My son rarely took naps longer than 20 minutes. He woke up and was happy, aware, and inquisitive. That's just the way he was/is.

Starfox · 10-16-2010, 02:37 PM

Her bio says she offers "research based" advice on parenting issues.

I can't imagine that the stopping feedings at night after 12 lbs is research-based at all.

Barf. Here's what she says about white noise machines:

CelticJourney · 10-16-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starfox5253

Her bio says she offers "research based" advice on parenting issues.

I can't imagine that the stopping feedings at night after 12 lbs is research-based at all.

Barf. Here's what she says about white noise machines:

What!? I sense a new battle on the horizon.

katiekind · 10-16-2010, 02:45 PM

Is she portraying her advice as Christian?

Starfox · 10-16-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katiekind

Is she portraying her advice as Christian?

Not from what I could tell on her website. She's pushing the research-based angle pretty hard though.

fireweedmama · 10-16-2010, 03:01 PM

The 12lbs advice is pretty common. Our Ped told us that biologically a child no longer had a need to eat at night when they hit that 12lb mark. We used that as the point to stop waking dd up to eat (she was a happy to starve baby at first) but continued to feed her when she woke on her own.

10-15-2010, 07:16 PM	#1
arymanth Rose Bouquet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NE Wisconsin Posts: 959	Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Someone on another parenting board I'm on has been recommending seminars by someone named Kitty Raymond. I had never heard of her, so I looked up her website here: http://raymond parenting.com/ (link broken) At first glance it wasn't too bad, but the more I read, the worse it got. It really sounds like an updated version of Ezzo's materials. Has anyone else heard of her??? I have spent the past two days arguing with a woman who is convinced that Kitty is a saint, and that I don't know what I'm talking about because I haven't been to the seminars. Here is Kitty's "advice" on how to get a 5 month old to take longer naps: " ...the method for lengthening his naps will be to leave him for a full nap time (2 hours) even when he starts crying after 45 minutes. He isn’t finished sleeping and therefore is crying. Given enough opportunities, he’ll eventually learn how to get himself back to sleep to finish off the nap." From her page on "Discipline"... scripts of things to tell your child: "It's really important for the door to stay closed (locked) all night long in order to keep you safe. I'll open it at breakfast time." "I know it's hard to go to bed wometimes but your smart body knows when it is tired. I love you and I'll see you in the morning." "It's OK to cry because crying will actually help you fall asleep sooner." Apparently she advises parents that a baby over 12 pounds does not need to eat at night, and they are just waking out of habit. That might explain the numerous comments by parents whose babies are dropping off the growth charts, but they still insist they are "just following their own curve". I am so frustrated from reading this woman's advice, I just want to beat my head against a wall. Anyone else familiar with her???? __________________ Stephanie, Mom to Seven Sensational Kids... Christopher -24, Jordan -21, Ian -19, Benjamin -16, Ivy -14, Josie -7 and Ronen -4 and creator of IvyRose Spica Chairs Now blogging at The Shepherd's Apprentice

10-15-2010, 07:50 PM	#2
Llee Moderator Dancing stands with all seahorses who are journeying to freedom Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 19,197	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Oh. My. Word! That is so truly bad, i just can't even understand how she can live with herself. And wow! Just, wow! My mom was appalled at the advice to lock your child in their room each night. I must admit though, that I am apparently in the wrong field for making money. I would like to teach a seminar where I could get $85 per family. Just 10 families and holding the seminar twice a month and our house would be paid off... __________________ It's me, dh, Dressy Bessy (Sept 08) and Dancing Daisy (May 10) Lead the children to see in every pleasant and beautiful thing an expression of God's love for them. Recommend your religion to them by its pleasantness. Let the law of kindness be in your lips. ~Ellen G. White

10-15-2010, 10:40 PM	#3
Hermana Linda Administrator "air-mannah Leen-dah" it means Sister Linda in Spanish Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 51,859	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Thank you for the heads up. Something to be aware of. __________________ My pages: Why Not Train A Child? and the FB Page as well as @WhyNotTrain on Twitter Read about how my husband was Pulled From The River By God

10-15-2010, 11:17 PM	#4
Sparrow Rose Garden Immerse your soul in love. Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 17,611	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Thinking of the comment on the 12 lbs baby..... My 28 lbs. 2 y/o still wakes to nurse at night, not because he's hungry, but because he needs the comfort, or needs a drink..... don't you sometimes need a glass of water at night? __________________ Manda Mama to: Bear 16.75 Funny and Tender. Larger than life. ENFP Max 14 Affectionate and Spirited. Artist Chickadee 8! She's Sunshine and Song. Born in the caul We have a fur baby. A cat called Charlie

10-15-2010, 11:19 PM	#5
hey mommy Rose Garden I am so hopelessly in love.. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chillin' in the California hills Posts: 24,678	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? yowzers... That is scary stuff... __________________ Janice (ISFP), single-mommy to Cias(11) Samuel( 4) and 2 babies in heaven Scully: You know, there is life on this planet. Mulder: I've seen the life on this planet, Scully, that's why I'm looking elsewhere. A Check out my NEW facebook page. I am now a Plexus Ambassador.

10-16-2010, 04:12 AM	#6
CelticJourney Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34,567	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Wow! Definitely thanks for the information. Locking children in a room at night is a huge danger in case of fire and even if baby doesn't need to 'eat' they do need to 'drink'. __________________ Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19

10-16-2010, 04:41 AM	#7
Carmen Rose Trellis Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,589	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Thanks for the info. Wow, I just cannot understand leaving a little person locked in their room. It just breaks my heart to think of babies crying and no one is there to pick them up. __________________ Carmen, wife to my favorite sound man DD1 Sweet Potato 4/05 DD2 Tot 2/07 DD3 Frankie 2/09 3/12 DS 1/19/13

10-16-2010, 09:07 AM	#8
BarefootBetsy Rose Garden "You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be." Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seeking Simplicity Posts: 12,684	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Wow... that is... disturbing __________________ Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world.

10-16-2010, 02:07 PM	#10
ClassicMom Rose Blossom Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 134	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Thanks for letting us know about this. I am w/the comment about how a child/baby isn't done napping if it's been less than 2 hours. Everyone needs a different amount of sleep, including children. My son rarely took naps longer than 20 minutes. He woke up and was happy, aware, and inquisitive. That's just the way he was/is. __________________ ClassicMom

10-16-2010, 02:37 PM	#11
Starfox Deactivated Ain't nobody got time for perfection! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Home! Posts: 11,805	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Her bio says she offers "research based" advice on parenting issues. I can't imagine that the stopping feedings at night after 12 lbs is research-based at all. Barf. Here's what she says about white noise machines: White noise in parent's room helps parents remember that they are actually "off duty" for the night. Add a pair of earplugs and you are good to go!" Last edited by Starfox; 10-16-2010 at 02:39 PM.

10-16-2010, 02:45 PM	#13
katiekind Deactivated Peace be with you. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: the sweet sunny south Posts: 15,346	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? Is she portraying her advice as Christian?

10-16-2010, 03:01 PM	#15
fireweedmama Rose Trellis Micah 6:8 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,130	Re: Kitty Raymond... the new Ezzo? The 12lbs advice is pretty common. Our Ped told us that biologically a child no longer had a need to eat at night when they hit that 12lb mark. We used that as the point to stop waking dd up to eat (she was a happy to starve baby at first) but continued to feed her when she woke on her own. __________________ A, married to E (7/7/01), mama to Raindrop (2/8/08) and Dewdrop (8/24/12)

X vBulletin 3.8.3 Debug Information
Page Generation 0.53995 seconds Memory Usage 8,136KB Queries Executed 16 (?)
More Information
Template Usage: (1)SHOWTHREAD (1)ad_footer_end (1)ad_footer_start (1)ad_header_end (1)ad_header_logo (1)ad_navbar_below (1)ad_showthread_beforeqr (1)ad_showthread_firstpost (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_sig (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_start (3)bbcode_quote (1)cyb_flashimagebanners (1)footer (1)forumjump (1)forumrules (1)gobutton (1)header (1)headinclude (1)navbar (3)navbar_link (60)option (1)pagenav (1)pagenav_curpage (4)pagenav_pagelink (15)post_groan_box (1)post_groan_javascript (1)post_groan_navbar_search (15)post_thanks_box (19)post_thanks_box_bit (1)post_thanks_javascript (1)post_thanks_navbar_search (6)post_thanks_postbit_legacy (15)postbit_legacy (15)postbit_onlinestatus (156)postbit_reputation (15)postbit_wrapper (4)showthread_bookmarksite (1)smqre_editor_button (1)spacer_close (1)spacer_open (1)tagbit_wrapper Phrase Groups Available: global inlinemod postbit posting reputationlevel showthread	Included Files: ./showthread.php ./global.php ./includes/init.php ./includes/class_core.php ./includes/config.php ./includes/functions.php ./includes/class_hook.php ./includes/functions_notice.php ./mobiquo/smartbanner.php ./mobiquo/include/classTTConnection.php ./mobiquo/smartbanner/head.inc.php ./includes/functions_bigthree.php ./includes/class_postbit.php ./includes/class_bbcode.php ./includes/functions_reputation.php ./includes/adminfunctions_template.php ./includes/functions_misc.php ./includes/functions_post_thanks.php ./includes/functions_post_groan.php Hooks Called: init_startup cache_permissions fetch_threadinfo_query fetch_threadinfo fetch_foruminfo style_fetch cache_templates global_start parse_templates fetch_musername notices_check_start global_setup_complete showthread_start template_groups template_safe_functions template_compile showthread_getinfo forumjump showthread_post_start showthread_query_postids showthread_query bbcode_fetch_tags bbcode_create showthread_postbit_create postbit_factory postbit_display_start post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_start post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_end post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_start post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_end post_thanks_function_thanked_already_start post_thanks_function_thanked_already_end post_groan_function_post_groan_off_start post_groan_function_post_groan_off_end post_groan_function_fetch_groans_start post_groan_function_fetch_groans_end post_groan_function_groaned_already_start post_groan_function_groaned_already_end reputation_image bbcode_parse_start postbit_imicons bbcode_parse_complete_precache bbcode_parse_complete postbit_display_complete error_fetch post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_start post_thanks_function_show_thanks_date_start post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_end post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_start post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_end pagenav_page pagenav_complete tag_fetchbit_complete forumrules showthread_bookmarkbit navbits navbits_complete showthread_complete
Messages: