Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl *graphic content*

[hsgbdmama]

Originally Posted by Sara

But apparently "get out" does not mean get yourself away from the situation, rather it means to get your husband out of the house and then wait for him to come back. From their website:

Seek counseling and forgive and forget? Welcome a man back into your bed who likes to have sex with your daughters??? Uh-uh - I don't think so. That's insanity. I would venture to guess that God considers it a pretty high priority to protect our children from rapists and molestors.

Great points. Plus again she contradicts herself once again by stating that the wife will have raised the kids by herself -- meaning that the husband is not around to do the job. Her teachings state that the MAN needs to be there to direct/oversee everything.

Goes to the point that life does not work out in nice little compartments like the Pearls would like it to, with their pre-defined roles carried out by the appropriate people as defined by them (through their interpretation of Scripture).

Yes, a woman should forgive her husband for such unthinkable sins, but no where in Scripture does it say that she needs to continue to put up with it. And Jesus talks about those who wish to harm children like this: "It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves." (Luke 17:2-3a)

But my earlier point was that she does not say to put up with the abuse, saying that it's somehow the wife's fault anyway; rather, she says to call the authorities and testify. So that is what I meant when I put it in my positive column. (There are some very extreme people out there who do say a wife should stay with an abuser because it is somehow her fault the abuse is happening. ) I don't agree that the wife is required to take her husband back -- that needs to be a very prayerful decision made between her and the Lord.

[Marielle]

Ick, receive a pedophile/molester back with open arms? Yeah, the grown kids will be safe but will probably distance themselves from mom for betraying them and if they don't, what about the grandkids? Will they be safe if grandpa is eyeballing them as bait?

[AngelBee]

I actually just purchased this book about a week ago. I am still waiting for it to get here. I have heard mixed reviews and wanted to read it for myself.

I think what is most important is to take what works for you and leave the rest behind.

The only book that you can FULLY put your trust in is the Bible.

We should pray for the Pearls that there ministry would be influenced by the Holy Spirit and that they may be inspired to see things differently.

[Heidi_Suzanne]

When it comes to the Pearls I liken it to wading through sewage in search of a nichel. No thanks.

But my earlier point was that she does not say to put up with the abuse, saying that it's somehow the wife's fault anyway; rather, she says to call the authorities and testify. So that is what I meant when I put it in my positive column. (There are some very extreme people out there who do say a wife should stay with an abuser because it is somehow her fault the abuse is happening. ) I don't agree that the wife is required to take her husband back -- that needs to be a very prayerful decision made between her and the Lord.

But that is only in the instance of sexual abuse or physical abuse that leaves marks. If the husband isn't hitting hard enough to leave marks or is "merely" engaging in verbal abuse, apparently the wife is supposed to put up with it because it is likely her fault for not being submissive enough.

Again, we have this lovely quote from their website (these are MPs words, BTW):

If you or your children have been hit (other than the children being spanked) so as to leave discernable marks two hours later, and you genuinely fear that he will repeat his battering, you can take legal steps without divorcing your husband. ...You must first resolve in your heart that you are willing to prosecute him and see him go to jail. ... Think about it, lady; it is a great time for writing love letters and sharing a three-minute romantic phone call once a week. Guys who get out of prison run straight home to their ladies and treat them wonderfully—for a while anyway.

And then there's this one:

If your abusing husband fully understands that you have the power of the law behind you, he will learn to keep his hands in his pockets.

Hmmm, perhaps we could ask the thousands of women who are murdered every year by their husbands if "fully understanding the power of the law" protected them. Oh, that's right, we can't ask them. They're dead.

Having worked with child abuse victims and victims of domestic violence prior to having children, this stuff makes my blood boil.

[Heidi_Suzanne]

If you or your children have been hit (other than the children being spanked) so as to leave discernable marks two hours later, and you genuinely fear that he will repeat his battering, you can take legal steps without divorcing your husband. ...You must first resolve in your heart that you are willing to prosecute him and see him go to jail. ... Think about it, lady; it is a great time for writing love letters and sharing a three-minute romantic phone call once a week. Guys who get out of prison run straight home to their ladies and treat them wonderfully—for a while anyway.

Discernable marks TWO HOURS LATER!!!! Omgoodness, those people make me sick. If he's done it once you can guarantee he'll do it again. Don't wait to find out.

Great time for love letters and romantic visits? That has got to be the most ignorant statement I've heard in a long-LONG time.

She's right about one thing. Guys get out of prison and treat their wives well for a WHILE.

I've heard others describe DP as an abused wife but never really believed it before. Now I'm wondering. Who else would think visiting your abuser in prison was romantic?

If your abusing husband fully understands that you have the power of the law behind you, he will learn to keep his hands in his pockets.

She obviously hasn't a clue what she's talkin' about. Does she realize how few men are actually convicted of battery? Sure it's more than t was 40 years ago but it's still pretty common for them to get a slap on the wrist or for him to be let off completely for lack of evidence or whatever.

Having worked with child abuse victims and victims of domestic violence prior to having children, this stuff makes my blood boil.

ditto. and weep too.

[hsgbdmama]

Originally Posted by Sara

But that is only in the instance of sexual abuse or physical abuse that leaves marks. If the husband isn't hitting hard enough to leave marks or is "merely" engaging in verbal abuse, apparently the wife is supposed to put up with it because it is likely her fault for not being submissive enough.

Again, we have this lovely quote from their website (these are MPs words, BTW):

I don't remember her advocating putting up with any kind of physical abuse in her book (and I know I would remember something like that), and the book is what the OP asked about. But I agree -- these quotes from their web site are just !!!!! I'm sure they had to be careful how to word things in the book, because it's a lot easier to remove stuff from a web site than from a book!

And I just want to clarify: I DO NOT PUT UP WITH OR ADVOCATE ANY KIND OF ABUSE IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. My maternal grandmother was married to an abusive alcholic, and she divorced him when she could take it no more.

[Can Dance]

I would also like to point out that it is because of FEMINISM that there ARE laws to protect women and children. they did not exist to the extent that they do now. sometimes I think that women of our generation don't truly appreciate just how far we've come. things have become illegal, like sexual harassment, for stuff that wasn't even looked at 50 years ago.
no, it hasn't brought all nice things (ex: abortion), but it sure beats having a 2 thumb law where I could be beaten with something smaller than that legally. or heck, not being burned at the stake on suspicion of witchcraft.
its nice to be recognised as a human being under the law, where we were once property for men to do with what they wished.
C

[Heidi_Suzanne]

I would also like to point out that it is because of FEMINISM that there ARE laws to protect women and children.

yup. and for all those folks who wanna complain about the negative aspects of feminism let them go back to the days when a wife was literally her husband's property, when he could legally beat her and no one cared if there were discernable marks two hours or two days later. i sure don't want to go there. i don't like lots of things associated with modern day feminism but i won't be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[CelticJourney]

When my dh was a local police officer, he had a man look he directly in the eye and say 'she's my woman, I'll beat her if I want to'. Went to jail. He also had one beat his pregnant wife because the ultrasound showed their baby was a girl and he would have sired a boy, so obviously the baby wasn't his.

He even arrested a female family member once who was berating an abused woman who was trying to get away from her h, saying she was making it all up ...(obstruction of justice). He met with the woman and her lawyer before court and explained the times he or other officers had gone to the house over domestics where he had been agressive, etc. - the female family member was shocked that she had been so far in the dark. Its a strange world.

[TulipMama]

Keep in mind that any embrace of traditional roles by a man can be seen in today's society as "abusive".

There really is a big difference between supporting traditional roles of husband-servant-leader and wife-companion-helper (positive!), and the negative and/or abusive dynamic that is being discussed on this thread.

Many, many Christian women here have observed or been part of an unhealthy dynamic in their marriage, that has been fueled by teachings like the Pearls'. I believe that most of the mothers here at GCM would view the husband-servant-leader and wife-companion-helper as what is best. Yet. . . there are teachings that twist that so that the wife's actions become less companion-helper and the husband's become less servant-leader--and it feeds into the sins of the individuals in a way that leads to a worsening cycle of relating to one another.

I'm all for inspiring and encouraging mothers in their special role as wife and mother. Let's encourge one another! It's true--when a wife seeks the Lord in making changes in herself and her part of the relationship--it impacts the whole relationship. These are all good things!

But Debi Pearl's book, like Heidi said, is toxic. I believe the concerns are very valid about these teachings leading to negative, and possibly abusive, dynamics.

I have been reading ths thread over the past few days with interest.I haven't read the book or even the sample chapter but what I keep thinking of is a concept Jeff Vanvonderan brings up in Families where Grace Is In Place. He talks about Curseful relationships and Graceful relationships. It just seems like this extreme submission even to a controlling and dictatorial man is such a curseful relationship - one that exists under the curse of the Garden "Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you" insted of one that exists in accordance to the Grace of the Gospel. It also seems to require that the woman be stripped of any sense of self worth as a child of God before she is willing to put up with it. Finally, the motivation to submit in order to change and control her husband also seems very curseful instead of graceful. As has been mentioned before it rarely works to control another person by manipulating them especially long-term. It creates co-dependency and someone who is emotionally exhausted from the charade. Vanvonderan describes the negative results f this kind of relaitonship very well.

Magan

[phathui5]

Hmmmm I remember reading an article where he was telling a woman to stay married to an abuser

The title of the article is "Abusive Husband." You can find it on their website, NGJ.

[Heidi_Suzanne]

Finally, the motivation to submit in order to change and control her husband also seems very curseful instead of graceful.

it's manipulative too. besides it's never a good idea to give in order to get.

But if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is willing to seek counseling and repent, then fine and good. If not, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him with open arms of forgiveness and restitution. Will this glorify God? Forever. You ask, "What if he doesn’t repent even then?" Then you will be rewarded in heaven equal to the martyrs, and God will have something to rub in the Devil’s face. God hates divorce—always, forever, regardless, without exception.

In what part of the world does the average molesting father do 10-20 years of prison time? Heck, its nearly impossible to even convict because there is often little concrete physical evidence since its not like the victimized daughters report it soon enough for a rape kit to be processed...

This is just SO insane...even if the recidivism issue weren't another problem.

God does hate divorce...but He also hates sin in general. And He still forgives. I think He would much more hate the act of a mother allowing an abusive father to remain in the same house with the victimes. And its not like divorce is the ONLY option (though I do think it is a wise one in this kind of situation), the mother could just separate, but not seek divorce.

Jenn