Help me combat this gallbladder problem...*small attack and some theories #45*

[Firebird Rising]

I'm in the middle of my second attack this week.

I have done extensive research online about this condition. In September, when I ended up in the ER, it was confirmed that there were "small stones". I read the radiology report and the surgeon consult report and feel confident that I can deal with this naturally, or at least start that way instead of going straight to surgery.

Here are the contributing factors I've compiled that seem to lead to this problem. Mine are in red:

high sat. fats or refined carbs diet
being over 40 yrs old
having excess estrogen from pregnancy (I THINK this would still apply, right?)
taking HRT or contraceptives
obesity
sudden and rapid weight loss (would suddenly being NOT pregnant be considered a loss?)
yo-yo dieting
very low calorie diets
fasting
lack of exercise
food allergies (commonly eggs, pork, onions, fowl, milk, coffee, citrus, corn, beans, nuts)
having diabetes
crohn's disease
cystic fibrosis
cirrhosis of liver
excessive consumption of sugar
taking statins or diuretics
certain antibiotics
anti-rejection drugs
prostaglandins
stress

Triggers include (guess which I had today ):
caffeine
chocolate
eggs
dairy products
greasy/deep fried foods.

I need to do a flush (will describe that in just a bit).

What are the risks of a flush? The biggest one is that you could get a stone stuck that won't come out and end up in surgery. That's what's going to happen anyways if this problem does not resolve. I could have milk supply issues from the fasting. Right now, I go between having a normal to overproductive milk supply. I am going to try to increase it and also get a freezer stocked if I end up in surgery or get separated from Ben for some reason.

I need to eliminate coffee for sure, but the caffeine has been used for ADHD for me. However, now I'm on Wellbutrin, which seems to be working. So, I'm a bit confused as to whether it's the caffeine or the coffee that causes gallbladder problems, as I've seen them used interchangeably. If it's just the coffee, I'll start taking caffeine pills for the ADHD if I still need it. I'm currently consuming four shots of espresso in the morning and the last week, it has felt like two much combined with the Wellbutrin.

I successfully followed a low-fat vegan diet for three years and was very healthy. I need to get back to that. When I moved in with my parents, I began eating all sorts of toxic stuff. Problem with this diet is that it's a lot more prep than I am used to b/c so much of it's not processed. It's imperative that I plan meals to make it happen.

So here's info on the flush. I've read example after example of flushes and this one seems the most complete and healthy. My midwife had read it and approved it when I was pregnant, before a violent stomach flu in September wiped out all my symptoms.

GALLSTONE FLUSH

As devised by the Dulwich Health Society

METHOD:

1. For six consecutive days drink two litres of fresh, pure apple juice per day. Beg, borrow or steal a juicer if you can and use organic green apples, which have a higher pectin content than red apples. The pectin in the apple juice will begin to soften the gallstones. If you do not have a juicer, ensure you purchase organic apple juice, and eat organic green apples. It also helps to drink 5 cups of camomile tea per day. During this time eat sensibly, following the guidelines on page 3.

2.On the sixth day, eat nothing after lunch but continue to drink the apple juice and camomile tea.

3. At 9.00 p.m on the sixth day, take 1-2 level tablespoons of Epsom salts* dissolved in a little warm water. Prepare another dose incase you need it later.

4. At 10.00 p.m mix together 2 oz/60ml of freshly squeezed organic lemon juice and 4 oz/120 ml of cold-pressed, unrefined extra virgin olive oil. Drink as slowly as you can manage. (Drinking it through a straw helps, so that the oil does not come into contact with the lips.)

5. Got to bed immediately and lay on your right side for 30 minutes with your right knee drawn up to your chest before you go to sleep, to help the olive oil mix drain.

6. During the next day you should pass gallstones that are as soft as putty.

*The Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) are used to dilate the bile duct, to reduce the risk of a stone becoming lodged there. If you suspect that a stone may have become lodged (which will produce a mild, dull pain in comparison the extremely sharp pain of a gallstone attack), repeat the procedure.

Here are the food/lifestyle changes conducive to keeping your gallbladder:

Eat whole grains, unrefined carbohydrates (brown bread, rice and pasta etc) and plenty of dietary fibre.

¨Increase intake of vegetable proteins (especially soy products), decreasing intake of animal proteins.
¨Consume plenty of fresh, organic fruit and vegetables, especially those containing pectin (especially green apples) and cellulose (especially celery and crisp fruits and vegetables).
¨Eliminate intake of saturated fats, and ALL products containing white sugar and white flour.
¨Eat no fried foods, especially those that are deep-fried.
¨Avoid ice-cold foods and drinks - room temperature or slightly warm is best.
¨Avoid coffee.
¨Drink at least 6-8 glasses of water per day to keep the water content of your bile topped up, plus chamomile tea if possible
¨NEVER skip meals and ALWAYS eat breakfast.
¨Every meal or snack should contain 10g of fat to enable the gallbladder to contract.
¨Drink a little unrefined, cold-pressed extra virgin olive oil each day (see Daily Flush Drink above). Olive oil will help the gallbladder to contract vigorously and thus cleanse itself.
¨Do not eat excessively large meals, which put an unnecessary burden on the digestive system.
¨Vegetarians have a much lower incidence of gallstones, so adopting a vegetarian diet will certainly help.

When I follow the low-fat vegan diet, it's a diet of no added oils to foods. So, I take the natural fats from whatever the foods happen to have. So I add no oil to the tofu when I "fry" it. I just use water or bragg's to cook it in.

I would have to adjust this diet to include the olive oil. I wonder if coconut oil would be better?

A HUGE trigger for me is ice-cold drinks. Last week's was caused by a smoothie from frozen fruit and I knew immediately that it was a problem.

So, I'm interested in thoughts and ideas. I'd love a partner to do a flush with. I'll document progress here when I get it going. I think I'm going to try to get to the store tomorrow. Unfortunately, we're out of food stamps and DH doesn't get paid till next week so I'll have to settle for non-organic apples. Any idea how many I'll need to get two liters? I don't even know how much that is 'cause I'm so American

And the stress in my life. It's overwhelming sometimes. I went to bed completely bummed b/c of my shoulder hurting so much. But that's nothing.

Feel free to contribute your thoughts But no, I won't consider surgery until I've tried other options. I know it has really worked well for some, but I'm not interested in the possibility of those side effects.

Jen D.

PS: If you are interested in things to do WHEN you are having an attack, I'll include those too. I've had varying results.

[scottishthistle]

just a thought but,,,,,, I had confirmed gallstones in pregnancy and thought I was having attacks. It turned out I had a pinched nerve in my back and wasn't gallstones at all

[euromom]

I may partner with you in the flush, but I want to wait til I go to the consult with my surgeon to find out more info (like the size of my stones which I know is important to know first) My appointment is March15th so not sure if you want to wait that long or not. If not, that's ok because I am still researching and trying to figure all this out and what I want to do. I keep flip flopping back and forth depending on how I feel. When I feel good, I want nothing more than to keep my organ. When I feel crappy, I lean towards the surgery and just getting it over with and feeling better

I also was not sure about doing the flush while nursing. Will this effect our supply. Are you planning to pump before the flush or just keep nursing through it?

I am still drinking coffee too. I am undiagnosed ADD I believe...coffee really helps me to focus and get things done. I drink a STRONG cup in the morning and another most afternoons. It hasn't brought on an attack, but it's probably not the most helpful either. I keep reading mixed reports though. I've read that coffee is good at preventing gallstones and that those who drink coffee daily are less likely to have them (though not the case for me obviously) and then that caffine is bad for an attack. But it's one thing I have not been willing to give up yet either

Eggs are what brought on my last attack the other day. Eggs and onions. I'm so bummed because we just found a way to get farm fresh eggs, cheese, raw milk, kefir etc... and I can't eat any of it

I need accountablity in all this too. It's a lot more work to keep this diet. Dh was so sweet last night because he was eating something I could not and when he saw how tempted I was, he stopped and put it away. I felt bad, because I want him to eat what he can, but I have no self control right now...nursing makes me hungry as it is. And then when I'm pretty much only eating veggies and fruits all day, I am starving! I don't want to be afraid to eat anymore

[Firebird Rising]

Really, my think is that if I DO the flush and end up in the ER getting surgery, then it's not really THAT worse-case scenario than planning the surgery.

AFA milk goes, I have ample supply and will build it up beforehand. I was going to do the flush, perhaps starting next week.

I'm not sure about your surgeon but I know that any of them I've talked to think I'm a nut for considering it. But with the ultrasound I had in the ER when I was pregnant and reading the radiology report, I know they are small stones.

Jen D.

[Quiteria]

2-liter bottle of soda...that's the size of 2 liters

(beyond that, I have very little clue)

eta: OH--any chance you might be able to get a whole bushel from a farmer? Maybe from a cider mill?

eta2: if you get desperate money-wise trying to buy so many apples, perhaps you could buy pectin in the canning aisle

[euromom]

I'm pretty sure mine are small too but don't know officially. the girl who did my U/S also has stones and so although she was not suppose to show me them, she did. She's had hers for a year and since she works doing U/S she just keeps checking on them herself making sure they don't get too big. She told me mine were smaller than hers. She said they were what they call "sludgeballs" and there were lots of little ones. I'm suppose to pretend I never saw them

In the meantime I have thought of going ahead and at least doing the lemon water and oliveoil drink in the morning, I heard that is really good either way I have been cooking with olive oil too...making things like eggplant and zucini. I even drank a tablespoon or so the other day when I just felt kinda icky..not an attack but just not my normal self either. They say olive oil is a dieretic and really good for us. I've also been putting it on my salads.

One thing that has helped in my attacks is cucumbers. last week I had an attack because I drank some pinapple juice. I forgot that citrus is bad My back started tensing up and I started feeling really icky. I immediatly went to the kitchen and started eating cucumber. I was bracing myself because the 2 takes before that went on for HOURS. I was scared. But within 15min it was gone. I felt 100% and awesome. I told dh we must ALWAYS have a cucumber in our fridge!

I have no idea how my surgeon will be but I am bracing myself for him to want to push surgery on me and not be open to more natural routes

[euromom]

I'm having an attack again now

I drank a bunch of room temp water

ate some cucumber

drank some apple cider vinagar with some apple juice

and dh just massaged my back some and gave it a few hits as well

What else can I do? I don't want this to go on for hours It's mild right now because I think the things I am doing are helping some but it's not going away completely yet what else can I do???? I don't have any pepermint tea but so wish I did

I HATE this

---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

ok, i think the worse is over. All that stuff must have helped. I am just feeling nauseous now but the intense pressure and chills is gone

[Firebird Rising]

SOOOO stupid!

DH went to the new bakery and came back with a HUGE totally delish three-layer brownie. I ate it all with great relish.

Followed it with 1/4 c epsom salt in 3 c of warm water as soon as I felt the familiar tightening.

Am waiting until Monday when I can get our food-stamps and buy the apples I need. Then I'm going to do several days of 2 liters apple juice, half a day with several doses of epsom salts and then a dose of olive oil/lemon juice. I've heard great results with this and I seriously need to do it.

I might just go spend some of the money we got and start it tomorrow. I really want to feel better.

Stupid brownies.

[euromom]

Just seeing this. Hope the epsom salt helped and the attack wasn't long. Dh made brownies for our small group yesterday. I had a very hard time resisting. If I hadn't just had that horrid attack the other night I would have eaten them for sure. ITU March 15th feels sooooo far away right now, I just want to know the size so I can do a flush too!

Will this be your first flush? Or have you done one before? I am wondering what the chances of having attacks again in the future are once doing a flush. If we keep to some sort of preventitive diet and flush them all out, we should be back to normal right???

Also, when flushing them out, will it feel like we are having an attack? Or is that only if one gets stuck in bile duct while flushing?

[Firebird Rising]

Originally Posted by euromom

Will this be your first flush?

yes, i never got to it while pregnant.
afa I know, if you are seeing stones, you're doing a good job and recurrence of another attack is lessened.

Also, when flushing them out, will it feel like we are having an attack? Or is that only if one gets stuck in bile duct while flushing?

I haven't heard of a flush itself hurting. I've only heard of it hurting if there is a stone stuck.

[euromom]

What do you know about Gold Coin Grass? I am doing some googleing and researching on flushes and reading that this is something very helpful I think it I read somewhere it is believed to soften the stones making it easier for them to pass. Here is a link with some testimonies of people who said other flushes did not work but using GCG they were able to pass stones.

http://curezone.com/gallstones/digest1.asp

[Firebird Rising]

Originally Posted by euromom

What do you know about Gold Coin Grass? I am doing some googleing and researching on flushes and reading that this is something very helpful I think it I read somewhere it is believed to soften the stones making it easier for them to pass. Here is a link with some testimonies of people who said other flushes did not work but using GCG they were able to pass stones.

http://curezone.com/gallstones/digest1.asp

I saw that website. From what I understand, the pectin in green apples softens stone too so I ought 27 lbs last night and am juicing, drinking two liters a day for three days, then epsom salts and then I'm doing the olive oil flush. It was bad last night and I took 1/2 c lemon juice & 1/2 cup olive oil, shook it up and chugged in desperation. Laid on my right side and went to bed. half hour later, the pain was gone. It's back today, but not as bad so far. I'm eating nothing w/ fat now, just corn tortillas and homemade cilantro pesto. I'm going to stick w/ only a small diet for a few days.

Jen D

[knitlove]

Jen where did you get this information on flush and life style changes you posted?

Right now my SIL is planing on having hers out right after she has her baby. Both of my IL have had there's removed. The odd are that DH will have issues as well so I am interested.

Thank you.

[Firebird Rising]

I have searched and searched and read and read online for the last two years trying to figure out how to deal with this. I have more information that I've not posted simply because it's so much information that I've C/P.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a natural care provider so I've kind of had to go it alone. If you want more, PM me and I'll send my Word doc which might just give you more information.

[knitlove]

that would be great! pming you now.