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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing. A public forum. Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:
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01-15-2012, 01:48 PM | #16 |
Rose Garden
"You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be."
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Re: Common sense and intuition
I haven't heard that about "common sense" but I have heard that because we live in a fallen world, our motherly instincts (about wanting our babies with us, and responding to their cries) are also fallen and warped and sinful
And coming from a culture where we're taught that our instincts and intuitions are wrong... well... how can we then argue that people should somehow just know to pay attention to those things? Our culture does not value innate knowledge much at all, from what I can tell. Especially not the innate knowledge of women/mothers...
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Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world. |
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01-15-2012, 01:55 PM | #17 | ||
Rose Garden
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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01-15-2012, 02:06 PM | #18 | |||
Rose Garden
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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LOTS of things about parenting are hard but equally right. Feelings cannot dictate what is good or bad. Quote:
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ETA: I'm not trying to invalidate your experience , just trying to understand b/c it's really foreign to me .[/QUOTE] Everything in my life is weighing facts. Feelings for me are just emotions. And I likely do not understand intuituion. TO ME it seems unreliable at best and superstitious at worst. I know for Ns that is not true. But I am not an N at all. Therefore I cannot function as one. I was told that sort of. That sometimes what we do is counterintuitive BECAUSE our hearts are decietful and we need to be above them. Therefore mysogeny, inequality, and hitting your kids was HIGHER than those lovey-gooey unbelievers with their girl power and "permissiveness" will be proven wrong in the end.
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Heather ESFJ T4 Messianic Joshua-13 Christina- 11 Amalia Linda-8.5 Trinity-7 Gabriel-5 w/ADHD, ASD & Dyslexia Taylor Jordan11/15/04 SkyeDakota10/12/05 Life is a pile of good things & bad things The good things don't always soften the bad things but the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things |
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01-15-2012, 02:11 PM | #19 | |
Rose Garden
The Gospel is for Christians, too :).
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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Yeah, it's not so much ignoring reality as it is the "more cowbell" approach to problem solving - if something isn't working, the *only* possible reason is that you aren't doing it right/enough . The idea that it might possibly be the wrong approach is not an option .
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~ forty-two ~
Possessor of The Answer to Everything and Solver of (Somebody Else's) Problems INTJ: introverted iNtuition with extraverted Thinking DYT 4/2: connecting intellectually and emotionally Enneagram 5w4: a need to perceive and to feel special Wife to my pastor dh (INTP) since 2003 Mother to: dd13, 'R' dd10.5, 'A' ds8, 'J' and two in heaven: miscarried 10/29/04 and 01/01/05 Blog: Lutherama What we want is just one thing, not the thing. |
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01-15-2012, 02:19 PM | #20 | ||
Rose Garden
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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---------- Post added at 01:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 PM ---------- Quote:
For the rest, I am not going to stop using reason to guide me because I have almost NO intution. None. If I base my life on that I will stand still with a blank look for eternity What I have to do is keep testing my sources and retesting to show it was not a fluke. Basically the scientific method.
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Heather ESFJ T4 Messianic Joshua-13 Christina- 11 Amalia Linda-8.5 Trinity-7 Gabriel-5 w/ADHD, ASD & Dyslexia Taylor Jordan11/15/04 SkyeDakota10/12/05 Life is a pile of good things & bad things The good things don't always soften the bad things but the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things |
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01-15-2012, 02:36 PM | #21 | ||||
Rose Garden
The Gospel is for Christians, too :).
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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It seems to me that, at some level, we are all have access to the same input - we just process it differently . Would you say that you use common sense? Quote:
---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ---------- Quote:
To me a key difference is whether the pain is incidental - we'd avoid it if we could - or if the pain is integral to the process - like spanking, the *point* is to cause pain. If you took away the pain, you took away the point. And as causing pain = bad, anything in which deliberately inflicting pain is the point is just not justifiable . Quote:
Anyway, I don't see intuition as an alternative to reason; intuition more synthesizes the input from reason and emotions .
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~ forty-two ~
Possessor of The Answer to Everything and Solver of (Somebody Else's) Problems INTJ: introverted iNtuition with extraverted Thinking DYT 4/2: connecting intellectually and emotionally Enneagram 5w4: a need to perceive and to feel special Wife to my pastor dh (INTP) since 2003 Mother to: dd13, 'R' dd10.5, 'A' ds8, 'J' and two in heaven: miscarried 10/29/04 and 01/01/05 Blog: Lutherama What we want is just one thing, not the thing. |
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01-15-2012, 02:52 PM | #22 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Common sense and intuition
I'm much more of a "weighing facts" sort of person as well I research everything to death and I tend to not go by "feelings" as a general rule. My T is extremely strong
However, it seemed incredibly flawed to me to discount motherly instincts. Especially when other mammals have them as well and, in their cases, those instincts are extremely important for their babies' safety and survival. There had to be a reason for these things - such as the fact that a lactating mother's body will let down milk when they hear a baby cry! So... I researched to find the reasons behind the instincts and came to the (very logical, IMO) conclusion that there were good reasons behind them and that following those instincts was the correct thing for me to do. I know that spanking never "felt" like a good thing to do (especially not on the receiving end - I've never actually dealt one out - and not even when I would think about spanking someone else), so I researched until I was confident that, logically-speaking, it wasn't. At least, not on a regular basis. It took me a little longer to come to the conclusion that hitting a child is never the best course of action even though sometimes it can seem to produce positive benefits and might seem like the only thing that can be done at the time (rather like in the Little House books where Laura whips that boy student when she was the school teacher).
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Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world. |
01-15-2012, 03:02 PM | #23 | |
Rose Garden
The Gospel is for Christians, too :).
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,911
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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~ forty-two ~
Possessor of The Answer to Everything and Solver of (Somebody Else's) Problems INTJ: introverted iNtuition with extraverted Thinking DYT 4/2: connecting intellectually and emotionally Enneagram 5w4: a need to perceive and to feel special Wife to my pastor dh (INTP) since 2003 Mother to: dd13, 'R' dd10.5, 'A' ds8, 'J' and two in heaven: miscarried 10/29/04 and 01/01/05 Blog: Lutherama What we want is just one thing, not the thing. |
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01-15-2012, 03:36 PM | #24 | |||||
Rose Garden
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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Common sense to me is the same as wisdom. It is things people have told me + things I have observed +things I have experienced. Then I apply them to similar situations. It is not some (for lack of a better word) feeling. Quote:
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[/QUOTE] But that does mean that suggestions to go with what your mommy gut tells you make no sense to me. What I did is imagine what I would do if I was raising my kid with no example or esperts. That means I would not have the benefit of longitudinal studies and have to base it on what I know here and now. The second thing I do is use all of human history and not just the industrial era as my guide. What have MOST moms done? Quote:
My instinct is to feed on demand because otherwise I leak and to come when they are crying and protect them from outside harm. But I also have an overdelevoped fight or flight instinct (Studies show this is common with ADHD) that makes me whant to either hit, run, or yell when hurt or wronged. And to be a good mother I actually have to go AGANIST instinct in that aspect. And I was never spanked that I can recall so I do not have that experience to base my decisions on.
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Heather ESFJ T4 Messianic Joshua-13 Christina- 11 Amalia Linda-8.5 Trinity-7 Gabriel-5 w/ADHD, ASD & Dyslexia Taylor Jordan11/15/04 SkyeDakota10/12/05 Life is a pile of good things & bad things The good things don't always soften the bad things but the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things Last edited by Heather Micaela; 01-15-2012 at 03:39 PM. |
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01-15-2012, 04:12 PM | #25 |
Rose Garden
"You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be."
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Re: Common sense and intuition
I think that hitting is an instinct as well - in the heat of the moment, at least. Babies demonstrate that instinct really early on. But that's an instinct that I rejected ultimately because of my research, but also because (when one isn't in the heat of the moment), it seems to be a wrong thing to do. At least, I've been taught my entire life that hitting others is wrong, so why should there be an exception only for parents to hit tiny little children?
Does that make any sense? I'm not sure if it does or not It did in my head before I typed it out!
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Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world. |
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01-15-2012, 04:19 PM | #26 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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So there you have it- I'm an INTJ. Embracing my inner geek.
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01-15-2012, 09:35 PM | #27 | |
Rose Garden
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Re: Common sense and intuition
Quote:
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Heather ESFJ T4 Messianic Joshua-13 Christina- 11 Amalia Linda-8.5 Trinity-7 Gabriel-5 w/ADHD, ASD & Dyslexia Taylor Jordan11/15/04 SkyeDakota10/12/05 Life is a pile of good things & bad things The good things don't always soften the bad things but the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things |
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01-16-2012, 12:31 AM | #28 | |
Rose Garden
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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It's an instinct base on emotions of fear, anger, revenge, and self-protection. Not things I want to be basing my parenting on.
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~Emily INTJ, Type 4 Wife to D Mama to: E 12/05 L 7/08 Z 12/10 A 6/14 and J in heaven 2/10 Torah Keeping, Unschooling Family My blog on unschooling and family life: Peace On Dark Nights. |
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01-16-2012, 06:44 AM | #29 | ||
Rose Garden
a little Attachment Parenting will fix that
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Re: Common sense and intuition
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i read BW w/ my 2nd. but he wasnt especially needy so i lightly implemented some stuff. with the 3rd- i went full on. we still suffer from that i knew a very AP family at church- and their kid was Hell on wheeles. ( the pastor gave them the same "discipline" book he gave me, and they put it into action. he did change) thus further supporting the Ezzo thinking. my eyes werent opened till my 4th. when i was finally able to breastfeed. it changed everything thats when "instinct" smacked me in the face..and i couldnt supress it.. so i start with feelings..then go after facts to prove or disprove ( which i still need to be careful with) i dont know how women breastfeed and still do Ezzo..wow. i just dont understand. the internal conflict that must be raging ---------- Post added at 05:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 AM ---------- Quote:
what MB personality type is that? back to your regularly scheduled program
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Gently mothering 5 babes one day at a time, only by the help of my Lord - ages 11,6,5, 4, & 2 Nonviolence is not sterile passivity, but a powerful moral force which makes for social transformation.ISFP Last edited by SweetCaroline; 01-16-2012 at 06:48 AM. |
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01-16-2012, 07:15 AM | #30 |
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Re: Common sense and intuition
"People should just use their common sense and intuition to know when to stop doing, or not use something. Chew the meat and spit out the bones."
Sometimes people choke on the bones before they realize they are in the meat. |
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