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Old 06-16-2013, 11:32 AM   #16
CelticJourney
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

If you are going to use Proverbs as the foundation for your belief on this, I will challenge you to consider starting with stoning fools and cutting out your tounge for speaking lies FIRST. My only caution is that unlike a child, fools are not helpless and sometimes they wise up and start returning fire. Be very careful what wisdom literature you decide to take on face value and which you decide are 'proverbial'.

My rule of thumb has always been to take a piece of scripture to the 'foot of the cross' and see how it compares to the gospel of Christ. Does inflicting physical pain mesh with the patient discipling that Christ displayed? Does inflicting physical pain truely teach the objective attempted or does it teach fear?
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

I for one, am not angry. I am certain that punishment is not what God wants us to do, but I cannot say why. I always like seeing these threads because I walk away with a better understanding of why I am doing this than I had before the discussion.
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfire16 View Post
This is an old thread and this is discussed in the links posted, but I just wanted to point out that the phrase "spare the rod, spoil the child" is not actually found in the Bible. It's from a poem.
Not even a religious poem. The full quote is,

If Love's a boy by poets styl'd,
Then spare the rod and spoil the child.


The full passage has the same theme as John Mellencamp's "Oooh, Baby, Make It Hurt So Good." Not about child rearing at--all.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjy9343 View Post
I for one, am not angry. I am certain that punishment is not what God wants us to do, but I cannot say why. I always like seeing these threads because I walk away with a better understanding of why I am doing this than I had before the discussion.
As I read through I came away with this same thought...more or less. I'm not angry it was brought up. It's a good way to sharpen yourself and others and remind others why we are doing this. In fact, some of what others have said reminded me that I need to work on some behaviors regarding forgiveness and kindness between my daughters (typical girls always snarking at each other).

My story is that I never felt the need to spank naturally. My parents only spanked me once and it was actually for something I didn't do (they felt pressured to "discipline" me because a neighbor accused me of saying something about her...which is ridiculous because I looked up to that neighbor and nearly idolized her...I would *never* say what she said I said). With my own daughters I felt strongly drawn toward gentle parenting/attachment parenting. I found GCM when my oldest was a teeny baby.

At that point I still believed that spanking was in the Bible, but I chose not to use that "tool" with my daughter. My girls have been spanked...due to my own failings and always followed with an apology for my behavior. BUT, it wasn't until I did a full study on the "spanking" verses that I was convinced without a shadow of a doubt that spanking is not mandated and it's not even encouraged by Scripture. I wrote a paper on it. My professor was amazed by what I found and I actually taught him something...and that's saying something because he is a very educated man!

I agree with everything everyone else has said already. I just wanted to give a brief synopsis of my journey.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

Well, to give you context for my posts, in particular, I came to the topic of Biblical discipline and the rod verses (after having avoided it for several years ) expecting to find at least SOME Biblical support for physical punishments and what I came away with was that there's really not any. My final conclusion at the end of my three-post series was shocking to me, in fact.

I found in my study that there are three potential ways to interpret the word "rod" and that only one of those ways would indicate physical punishment while, at the same time, contradicting the rest of the message of the gospel.

My posts are long, but thorough, and there are a great many excellent questions and answers in the comments underneath them, as well

All the other posts mentioned in this thread are well worth reading also But, in case you might think that everyone who wrote about it started off with a presupposition of punishment not being Biblical, I wanted to make sure that you knew that, at least in my case, that's not how it happened at all
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Last edited by BarefootBetsy; 06-16-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:57 PM   #21
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

I thought it was biblical too. I was taught and had it beat into me over and over and over and over again that it was. I had used that horrible method on my oldest and moved away from that when I joined GCM and saw what I had secretly believed deep down (but had shoved a sock in her mouth and tied up the poor little girl) and was afraid to let loose.

I'm becoming stronger in my belief, though am challenged at almost every turn by friends and family in the US.
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

I also started out spanking and thought it was Biblical. Then when I found GCM and other resources and studied it out, it became so clear that it is, as BarefootBetsy said, contrary to the message of the gospel.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

I will say that one thing that really convinced me that spanking is not something that must be done to have well behaved kids is moving to Germany. It is illegal to spank here and the kids are no better or worse behaved than in the US. Though, I have noticed that when I am on the barracks I hear a lot more crying and whining that I do when I am on the economy.
I was shocked to see small children riding bikes with their parents and then stopping at the end of the sidewalk, traffic signal or other place that they needed an adult. I mean children that are two or three without an adult standing there to make them obey. If spanking is illegal, they did it without hurting them.
Another thing that amazed me was the number of children going on field trips with maybe three teachers. Twenty kids have three teachers to keep an eye on them as they get on and off public transit, walk on the sidewalk and go to the destination. But the really amazing thing is how often they take short cuts though the playground and no one tries to play.
Also when we go to the parks, I see far less shoving, hitting and other not so great behavior from the ages we expect it in the US. I am not saying it never happens, but the parents are watching the kids and ready to intervene if they do something like snatch toys, but for the most part are hands off and let the kids work out their differences. Now when it is time to go, they act just like American kids and plead for more time and even refuse to stop. More than one parent has had to physically removed a kicking and screaming child from the equipment. Some things are just universal.

---------- Post added at 12:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------

One other thing I have noticed is that when I see kids crying and upset, I see more parents on the kids' level talking to them and hugging them. While I don't understand the words, I do understand the tone and it is not impatient or annoyed. It is gentle and kind. Sometimes reassuring, sometimes firm, but never harsh. It is also as likely to be the father as it is the mother. (Which is something I love to see).
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:38 PM   #24
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjy9343 View Post
I will say that one thing that really convinced me that spanking is not something that must be done to have well behaved kids is moving to Germany. It is illegal to spank here and the kids are no better or worse behaved than in the US. Though, I have noticed that when I am on the barracks I hear a lot more crying and whining that I do when I am on the economy.
I was shocked to see small children riding bikes with their parents and then stopping at the end of the sidewalk, traffic signal or other place that they needed an adult. I mean children that are two or three without an adult standing there to make them obey. If spanking is illegal, they did it without hurting them.
Another thing that amazed me was the number of children going on field trips with maybe three teachers. Twenty kids have three teachers to keep an eye on them as they get on and off public transit, walk on the sidewalk and go to the destination. But the really amazing thing is how often they take short cuts though the playground and no one tries to play.
Also when we go to the parks, I see far less shoving, hitting and other not so great behavior from the ages we expect it in the US. I am not saying it never happens, but the parents are watching the kids and ready to intervene if they do something like snatch toys, but for the most part are hands off and let the kids work out their differences. Now when it is time to go, they act just like American kids and plead for more time and even refuse to stop. More than one parent has had to physically removed a kicking and screaming child from the equipment. Some things are just universal.

---------- Post added at 12:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------

One other thing I have noticed is that when I see kids crying and upset, I see more parents on the kids' level talking to them and hugging them. While I don't understand the words, I do understand the tone and it is not impatient or annoyed. It is gentle and kind. Sometimes reassuring, sometimes firm, but never harsh. It is also as likely to be the father as it is the mother. (Which is something I love to see).
Thank you for this very insightful observation.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by satin.mama View Post
...because we see God choosing the word "rod" where it could have been "discipline," "authority," or whatever).
It's important to keep in mind that the Bible was not written in English but in Hebrew (and Greek). So while our translations say "rod" instead of "authority" we have to look at the original word and figure out the meaning of it, and study context to see what the author's original intent was. I am right there with you trying to figure this all out!
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: "Spare the rod?"

Adding another blog series.
This one is by MaybeGracie: The Rod Verses: Taking the rod verses literally. It's a 3 part series.
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