I think I'm doing the bear hug wrong

[MrsHutch]

Is it supposed to be holding them against their will while they scream and flail until they calm down? This doesn't feel right.

[Hopetobe]

My thought is you are only bear hugging to protect them or others when they are currently acting in an unsafe way, like a last resort kind of thing for some kids. I'm guessing some kids might do better with another method though, such as kids with sensory issues....but hopefully more experienced mamas will chime in.


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[Wild Asparagus]

My son is now 7. He HATES the bear hug. He has ALWAYS hated it. IT DID NOT WORK FOR HIM! EVER! It does't work for all children

[Mama Rophe]

I don't think you are doing it wrong. I just think that it doesn't work for every kid. Some kids respond to the bear hug, some don't. Out of my four kids, I've only had one that it worked with.

[Wonder Woman]

Like any part of attachment parenting and gentle discipline, I think it comes down to knowing your child.

My child - the one who stayed glued to my body for the first 18 months of his life, the one who co-slept for a long while, the almost-11yo who still loves to give and receive hugs - absolutely could not stand the bear hug.

When he is upset enough that I would have moved into the bear hug, he was upset enough that being hugged tightly triggered fight or flight in him. That isn't saying that I didn't use it on a couple of occasions, to restrain him when needed, but it's meant to be a calming tool, not an escalating one.

If it ramps up your kiddo instead of calming, I'd move on to something else unless you are restraining over a safety issue

[HomeWithMyBabies]

My understanding of the bear hug is it's meant to be a calming technique. If it's not calming it's not the tool for your individual child. It's ok to not use *all* the tools available to you.

This is JMO but if you're needing to hold a child because of a safety concern there are more issues to consider beyond typical discipline, and investigating and addressing those will be the most helpful in the long run. Things like sensory issues, emotional and/or physical concerns such as diet and sleep are worth consideration. The bear hug was not helpful to my child with those issues and only escalated his behavior so I stopped touching him at all unless I absolutely had to for safety reasons. In those moments I considered it a passive restraint. I would encourage anyone who finds they need to go there to get training and intervention in order to be as safe as possible.

[MrsHutch]

Thanks for the responses. So what else can I do? I'm trying to learn about "time-in," but I just can't figure out how to make it practically work.

When one of them is having a terrible attitude and yelling at me and throwing a huge fit over not getting their way, we've been putting them in time-out, but I know they need help calming down and getting control, and the isolation of time-out isn't helpful. I do feel like the bear hug ramps them up. So does time out.

Please help me figure out how to help them.

ETA: They aren't a safety threat when they're upset. Just a threat to my sanity.

[Wonder Woman]

I agree - the only time my child has ever been violent or aggressive was when he got a Red 40 exposure
He literally turned into a different child, and would flail and hit and try to punch anything around him.
Thankfully, it only took a few episodes of that before we tracked down the allergen, but if I had found myself repeatedly needing to restrain my child, we definitely would have sought assistance for him.

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------

Originally Posted by MrsHutch

Thanks for the responses. So what else can I do? I'm trying to learn about "time-in," but I just can't figure out how to make it practically work.

When one of them is having a terrible attitude and yelling at me and throwing a huge fit over not getting their way, we've been putting them in time-out, but I know they need help calming down and getting control, and the isolation of time-out isn't helpful. I do feel like the bear hug ramps them up. So does time out.

Please help me figure out how to help them.

ETA: They aren't a safety threat when they're upset. Just a threat to my sanity.

Do they respond well to a comfort corner? I believe there are a couple of threads on here about those, and I found it taught a valuable skill (walk away when upset, find a way to calm down).

[HomeWithMyBabies]

Humor was my best friend when my older two were toddler/preschool age. Random, silly, absurd stuff would break the cycle for them and blow off steam for me.

Of course I did the reflecting of feelings and helping them verbalize appropriately how they felt, but sometimes I just had to pull out the plastic duck whistle or paper bag puppet and be goofy. Sometimes they felt heard already but just needed some connection and cathartic laughter.

[MrsHutch]

Originally Posted by Wonder Woman

I agree - the only time my child has ever been violent or aggressive was when he got a Red 40 exposure
He literally turned into a different child, and would flail and hit and try to punch anything around him.
Thankfully, it only took a few episodes of that before we tracked down the allergen, but if I had found myself repeatedly needing to restrain my child, we definitely would have sought assistance for him.

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------



Do they respond well to a comfort corner? I believe there are a couple of threads on here about those, and I found it taught a valuable skill (walk away when upset, find a way to calm down).

I need to try to figure out a way to do a comfort corner.

The problem is that little J storms off, climbs in his crib, and bangs his head on his pillow when he gets upset. So he is walking away when he's upset, but not in a healthy way, and I don't know how to help him deal with being upset in a healthy way.

For the girls, they want us to know how upset they are, so they flail around in the floor in the same room wherever we are. I don't know that they would go to a comfort corner.

Originally Posted by HomeWithMyBabies

Humor was my best friend when my older two were toddler/preschool age. Random, silly, absurd stuff would break the cycle for them and blow off steam for me.

Of course I did the reflecting of feelings and helping them verbalize appropriately how they felt, but sometimes I just had to pull out the plastic duck whistle or paper bag puppet and be goofy. Sometimes they felt heard already but just needed some connection and cathartic laughter.

They get VERY upset when we try to use humor.

[mamacat]

I too would make a comfort corner and if you see a need for one invite them to go there with you at first (Lets go to the comfort corner).If J goes in crib before you can get him to the CC would try to take him out and go there.Holding them inCC if they will let you or sitting near and just validating the big feelings of being upset may be what they need right now rather than a time out.Acting out is how they have come to express themselves/get attention/have needs met sounds like. CCs neednt be big deals. It does seem to help that it is more of a true corner but could be in a little playtent with blankets or pillows inside a bean bag in corner etc.

---------- Post added at 02:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Gentl...9fa00.jpg.html http://www.pinterest.com/explore/calm-down-corner/

[ArmsOfLove]

The Bear Hug works in one of 2 ways.

First, there are children who love it and feel safe in it and you might use it apart from the other steps for connecting, in play, etc. For these children the use of it as the 5th Step might be often and it might organize them in chaotic times, etc. if this isn't your child then obviously you would not want to use it in this way.


Second, there are times when a child will dig in and refuse to do something. In very general terms this is usually for one of 2 reasons. Either they are stressed out, or road blocked, from being able to cooperate. This is the express purpose & moment for the Bear Hug as part of the 5 Steps. As part of the 5 Steps it should very rarely come in to play. I have shared many times that in the classroom when I learned this tool from my mentor who developed it (so all the way back in 1994) the use of this tool was intended and used primarily as in my first reason. It was only used for a child really flipping out a few times. The vast majority of discipline encounters should not go beyond step 4. Ever. At the point you move in and help the child and the issue is done. You both move on.

The second time I have used it is when a child just wigs out and needs a safe way to be restrained. Some children will not appreciate its use in this way but if I did not know another way and I needed to keep everyone present safe then that takes a higher priority. One of my five did not respond well to the Bear Hug at all in these moments - he also did not handle a car seat 5 point harness well at all (but lacking a safer way to transport him he still was buckled in every time we left the house). When this is the situation I have always encouraged parents to find calming tools that work better for that child and to explore what is going on in that child that is resulting in them qigong out in the first place. It could be any manner of issue from reacting to red dye 40 as has been mentioned (switching to computer brb) Ok - back

IME the children who literally freak out when the Bear Hug is used are the same children who escalate behavior so that the Bear Hug might seem *needed* very often. And in every child I have encountered that this is the issue, there has been some extra something that they are dealing with that needed to be addressed before they could cooperate. It wasn't an issue of them just not liking what they were being told to do and refusing, or arguing, it was that they *couldn't* stop themselves. And the Bear Hug can't make a child neurotypical

Then there have also been the parents who are using the 5 Steps but also stuck in some punitive thinking and expect the 4 previous Steps to motivate the child to cooperate on their own. The 4th Step, helping the child do whatever it is, really should be the final step except in rare cases (again, unless the child loves that connection from the Bear Hug and you employ it in a way that everyone feels cherished and loved).

IOW things escalating to the 5th Step frequently combined with the child freaking out from the Bear Hug means something else is going on - it's a red flag that indicates more investigation is needed into what is going on with this child and why they are not cooperating.

I am glad you posted asking because sometimes when we're in it all with doing the discipline we can slip into using tools as not intended or not realizing that there are bigger things around them that we're missing. If I find I'm using any tool (beyond helping a child and having it really be help ) I try to step back and see what the bigger picture is and what cycle we may be stuck in. That usually lets me see things in a different way and then we can get quickly unstuck and keep moving forward (or get an eval, or examine dietary reactions, or change our schedule as needed, etc). Makes for happier mom and children

& Hi, Mama Rophe I see you came back from break to join in.

[OnAMission]

I assume you are talking about the four and six year olds? Mine do that sometimes, especially my four year old. She has extremely big feelings about things that don't go her way, and she is quite loud and sort of flops around. After acknowledging her feelings and scripting a more appropriate way of expressing them, if it doesn't stop with ignoring, then I usually say something along the lines of "this is not appropriate behavior for a public area of the house. You need to use a regular voice, or you may go to your room." Incoherent whining and flailing on the floor. "Let's go to your room until you have yourself under control. Would you like me to go with you?" More incoherence. "I am going to help you to your room." I carry a flailing wailing child to her room. More often than not she cries louder, but at least it's not in the middle of the house. Usually she wants me to stay. Addressing the issue at that time is strictly out. Usually I lay down on her bed and invited her to come snuggle for a few minutes. Eventually she'll come and we will snuggle and she will settle down with her blanket and sucking her finger. In the safety of the quiet I tell her that I love her even when she feels out of control and is there something on her mind she'd like to say. Often she talks about something completely different and random. Sometimes she can use her words to tell me what the problem was/how she was feeling. If I sense it will go okay, we also talk about better strategies for dealing with the problem/her feelings than screaming and flailing. At least half the time, though, discussion about what to do differently causes escalation again. With her, I really have to carefully bring things up at neutral times. She just cannot process it in the moment, or anywhere close to the moment.

My oldest usually needs a hug. If I can get around my inner self that is saying to get this loud annoying thing away at all costs and say, "would you like a hug?" She almost always looks at me with utter relief and melts into a hug. Then we can talk.

Are these your new kids? I'm sure they haven't had a lot of coaching on how to deal with feelings. They probably also want to know if you will still love and care for them even when they spew their bad feelings all over you. They feel safe enough to let it out with you, which is a sideways compliment. I was never taught what to do with big feelings except stuff them. I'm sure I don't always respond the best way, but I still figure better out than in, even if the out is not pretty. We don't really use the bear hug because no one's safety is in jeopardy (at least that scenario hasn't happened yet...), and for those out-of-control moments it tends to make my kids fight harder. We usually do a time-in (read a book, sit with me, etc.) or space, preferably in their room/bed if they want it. Sometimes they just want one-on-one with me somewhere so they can have my undivided attention for a few minutes. Or they want time alone where they can be sure no one will bother them for a few minutes while they sort themselves out.

I can't imagine going from 1 to 4 as fast as you have. It has been hard enough for me adding one at a time. I think of you and pray for you often. You're doing a great job!

[sprout]

I have never been a fan of the bear hug personally.

If you are looking for alternative ideas, I would be happy to help brainstorm.

[ArmsOfLove]

Originally Posted by Wild Asparagus

My son is now 7. He HATES the bear hug. He has ALWAYS hated it. IT DID NOT WORK FOR HIM! EVER! It does't work for all children

I'm curious if you're talking about the same Bear Hug as the OP Or did you hear about it somewhere else? I'm trying to reconcile you joining the board in September and him *always* hating it and would love more info. I tried to find your intro but I can't find it. If you did hear about this Bear Hug somewhere else I'm wondering if you were given accurate information

I'm not saying he should like it Just wondering if we're talking about very different things.