Spanking "works"

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by Karen

I am with this. I am so very against spanking I would not have a child with someone who would spank because my children are NOT going to be hit. I would physically put myself between my child and anyone who would try to harm them, including a spouse. Time and time again I read of incredibly heartbroken women on here who think it is wrong to spank but cannot get their husband to stop hitting the kids. I would not choose to walk into that scenario. I know that sounds extreme but it is how I feel.

I actually got the coming in between them idea from you. The first time I saw where you posted it, I could not believe I did think of that. But up until my daughter was about four months old, I was still willing to spank for emergencies like trying to run away or something like that because until less than a year ago all I knew was spanking. When we got married, we were on the same page, now poor dh is being forced to relearn everything he thought he knew.

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------

Originally Posted by raisa

A quick story about how spanking works. Years ago my sister and BIL spanked their young son (1.5, maybe early 2yo) to keep him in bed at bedtime. He'd cry, go back to bed, but then come out of his room for them. Spanked, to bed, come out of the room, over. She was so frustrated -- was she supposed to spank him faster? Harder? I know I posted about it years ago on GCM because it was such a poignant story of a child hurting and yearning for love so badly that he would risk another spanking just to be with his parents for comfort.

Bless his heart my nephew is 8 years old and they have been struggling with nighttime toilet training for YEARS now. I know this affects all children for many reasons and can't be blamed solely on spanking. But when she says "why won't he just WAKE UP and come out of his room to pee?" I can't help but remember how she was determined to break his spirit so he'd never come out of his room at night again

You raise a very good point. That same thing happened with one of my brothers. But until now, I never thought about it being spanking related. I am sorry your nephew is suffering, but thank you for sharing. You shaken loose some other ideas.

[joysworld]

Originally Posted by BarefootBetsy

Yep - especially the lying

FWIW, I also have a good relationship with my parents as an adult. They also respect the fact that my kids are MY kids and that I've chosen not to spank them My dad doesn't understand why on earth we would choose this, but he doesn't interfere and I don't need him to understand why, I just need him to leave me alone and not bug me about it so we're good.

My mom's totally supportive of us not spanking. She was raised in an abusive household and when I shared with her Dr. Sears' list of people who should never spank... yeah... she agreed that she probably should never have gone down that path. I have anger issues (takes a lot to make me mad, but if I'm really angry, I'd be afraid I'd hit them and never stop) so I'm definitely on Dr. Sears' "should not spank" list also.

But see... my parents didn't JUST spank They also taught me things in positive ways between spankings. I appreciate that they cared about me enough to raise me in a way that they thought was best. I appreciate that they loved me enough to set firm boundaries. I wish they'd been able to do those things without spanking, but they didn't know any differently.

Simply put: I want better for my children. I've never hit them - yelling is what I struggle with since hitting was never an option I let myself have in the first place - but I struggle with yelling almost daily. I'm getting better, but it's hard.

So I don't see myself as a victim or anything like that. Someone came on Dare to Disciple a while back and said he was so sad to read adult children from good Christian homes who had victim complexes and yadda yadda. Um... clearly that fellow doesn't know me at all if that's what he thinks! I have great respect for my parents and love for them and a good relationship with them, but none of those things would make it okay for me to spank my children - HIT them.

They are tiny compared to me. Nothing would make me HITTING my CHILDREN be an okay thing. No matter how "okay" I turned out. No matter how good my relationship with my parents is. No matter that my parents mitigated the negative effects of spanking quite a lot by teaching me constantly in other ways. I know better than that and it's on ME to do better for my kids.

I think this is very important. The relationship between parent and child, I believe, is an important factor when an adult has issues with their parents spanking. I know several people who were spanked as a child, and have great relationships with their parents. The thing is, there was a great amount of connecting with the child in between the spankings. Some of these people spank their children, and see a clear distinction between spanking and hitting. Other friends of mine, have decided not to spank, but not because they have issues with their parents spanking, but because they believe differently. I just really do not like all spankers to be lumped into one group. JMT

Spanking is hitting your children. The simple fact is if you did to an adult what is done to children in the name of spanking, you would be arrested. Since I think children should enjoy MORE protection than adults, I find it wrong. I have issues with children being spanked, period.

[Johns_Gal]

I have to say, I too, have serious issues with spanking. It is not okay to hit an adult. It is not okay to touch an (unconsenting) adult on their rear end, it's molestation. But we can combine those things for children?

No. I don't think so.

If my husband spanked, we'd wind up divorced because I could *not* respect a grown man who hurts little children.

There was an incident awhile back, shortly after DH's return from overseas, when he was standing over DS, ordering him to clean up and scaring the wits out of the two year old. I flipped. He retreated and apologized to us both the next day. I'm still a bit growly when i remember it.

[zak]

This thread may have some of the best "one liners" ever.

I don't have much to add, but great thread!!

Being 6 years into this GBD parenting thing... I can say that I am overall very happy with my choice NOT to hit my children. I can't imagine hitting them would bring anything better/good to my relationship with them our my parenting.

[Heather Micaela]

Originally Posted by joysworld

I think this is very important. The relationship between parent and child, I believe, is an important factor when an adult has issues with their parents spanking. I know several people who were spanked as a child, and have great relationships with their parents. The thing is, there was a great amount of connecting with the child in between the spankings. Some of these people spank their children, and see a clear distinction between spanking and hitting. Other friends of mine, have decided not to spank, but not because they have issues with their parents spanking, but because they believe differently. I just really do not like all spankers to be lumped into one group. JMT

Those that spank that have a good connection with their children tend to be -other than spanking- fair and aouthritative in most ways. And if you examine it closely you find they could do everything BUT the spanking and get the same result. But somewhere along the line they were taught that the spanking was what you have to do - so they do

And they call spanking not hitting because they hate to think of it that way. All hitting is not spanking but all spanking IS hitting. I will say that even since using a grace based paradigmn there had been times when my children had been hit (Fight or flight when one injured me). But it was followed by apology, making amends, and an admission that HITTING IS WRONG. I am not sure how I could say that in one situation and then turn around and do it in a calculated and methodical way later.

[jenny_islander]

The way it's supposed to work is that the parent catches the child misbehaving, applies the spanking, and the parent no longer catches the child misbehaving.

Actually, it usually does work that way. And that is the problem. Spanking teaches children not to get caught. Pain, to a small child, is a monster that comes roaring in and derails the way things are supposed to be. What does it matter whether the pain monster is there because you fell on your knees on the sidewalk or because your mother hit you on your bottom? Pain is pain. The first priority is getting the pain monster to go away. Note that issues of right and wrong are not part of this description. Pain tends to drown out thinking.

Child training systems that require children to perform variations on kissing the rod, or the old prep school ritual of "Thank you may I have another," simply connect the pain monster more closely with the authority figure. Child training systems that call for continual display of the instrument of pain reinforce the knowledge that the parent can summon the pain monster at any time. Child training systems that recommend creating situations that call for letting the pain monster loose are the worst of all IMO. They are sadistic. I mean the clinical meaning of that word.

Faced with the pain monster, most children learn to sneak. They learn a set of behaviors that keep the pain monster asleep in its den, and when the pain monster isn't around, they are free. This is a lousy foundation for adult morality. Children who are beginning to struggle consciously with issues of right and wrong may accept that the pain monster is their rightful master and try hard to please it. Others may feel wronged and struggle against it, perhaps losing their way in their anger and grief. Others spend years on the razor's edge between the natural love of the parents and the hatred and fear engendered by the pain monster. Pain and love, love and power, pain and power, resentment and love, fear and love . . . it's a mess.

Pain drowns out thinking. Methodical, continual application of pain as outlined in child training systems teaches nothing useful.

Originally Posted by Johns_Gal

I have to say, I too, have serious issues with spanking. It is not okay to hit an adult. It is not okay to touch an (unconsenting) adult on their rear end, it's molestation. But we can combine those things for children?

No. I don't think so.

If my husband spanked, we'd wind up divorced because I could *not* respect a grown man who hurts little children.

There was an incident awhile back, shortly after DH's return from overseas, when he was standing over DS, ordering him to clean up and scaring the wits out of the two year old. I flipped. He retreated and apologized to us both the next day. I'm still a bit growly when i remember it.

Oh excatly, I couldn't respect a man who could hurt a child either. Awesome way to sum it up.

[StewardofLOs]

Spanking "worked" on me. I was a "good" kid. Except for fights with my sister (which is a whole other topic) I was well-behaved and a great student. I was a "good girl" from a "good Christian home."
I also learned a very important lesson: LOVE = PAIN.
If someone loves you, they will hurt you. However, if you learn all the rules and work hard at obeying them, you can lesson the pain somewhat. And since God IS love, then it stands to reason that He will hurt you too, but if you obey all His rules you can avoid most of that pain.

And then I had a miscarriage, and pretty much lost it on God. I mean, it's one thing to punish me (even if I didn't know what I was being punished for), but to involve my child!? How DARE He!?

That was four years ago. It has been a long road, but I have gradually (thanks mostly to GCM ) come to a better understanding of what grace really means (because how can I GBD my kids if I don't understand and accept God's grace in my own life?) I have also spoken some with my parents, have come to understand why they did what they did, and I don't blame them.

But yeah, that's how spanking "worked" with me.


Oh, and I never told him this, but if DH had ever raised a hand to our kids, he would have been out on the street so fast his head would spin. Fortunately, He is a fully converted non-spanker now--again, thanks to you ladies on GCM

Oh Christina, . I had a really skewed view of God's love and grace as well. I wish I had the understanding my whole life I do now. I want to help my children see Him as He truly is.

[Virginia]

The idea of stepping in and physically preventing your kids from being spanked is a really good one.

Originally Posted by Virginia

The idea of stepping in and physically preventing your kids from being spanked is a really good one.

It is a definate statement about how serious you are.

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by Virginia

The idea of stepping in and physically preventing your kids from being spanked is a really good one.

Originally Posted by Karen

It is a definate statement about how serious you are.

I think that it is also a really good visual. Decent men do not hit women because we are smaller than they are and they can do some serious damage without realizing it. Children are even smaller, don't they reserved as much protection?

[SweetCaroline]

but back again to this : spanking is not "hitting" its Biblical discipline. my DH still says this.

he's a great guy..but. he thinks you spank for "unwanted behavior" oh my goodness..have you seen the number of kids we have and their ages?? i feel like i work double time on the weekends to swoop in and head off every.issue. before it gets on his nerves ( i do a pretty good job though). im coming to dread weekends. he has been trying with me for almost a year to not spank..but he's not really on board, so wont really try to gain any further understanding about whats normal and so on.. so he's just frusterated that our house is loud, and hectic and people cry and bicker with each other. he even said that he would spank the kids for following him around ( if he already told them to stop)
anyway. sorry to buny trail with my own problem.

[bolt.]

The simple fact is if you did to an adult what is done to children in the name of spanking, you would be arrested.

That's absolutely true.

The other simple fact is that if you did to an adult what is done to children in the name of spanking (if it could be done)... you would find it to be a very useful tool in enforcing behavioural control over adults too.

I would sure keep my house more clean if someone was going to come and hit me if they were unsatisfied. With adults, it's obvious that such a set-up it wouldn't be part of a loving healthy relationship. Why isn't it just as obvious about children?