'Bad baby' siblings...

I have 2 boys a 5 and a 2 year old - we have some quite stressful sibling rivalry issues from the oldest directed at the youngest and have for a long time despite all the preventative measures we take (one on one time, lots of attention, validating feelings etc).

One aspect of this that is ds1 constantly calls ds2 'the bad baby', he just goes on about him being bad, sings 'bad baby, bad baby, bad baby' to his little brother, calls him ugly and disgusting. In the last few months ds2 has started calling himself bad - he says 'i'm bad, Adam bad' - it breaks my heart totally.

We ask ds1 not to say these things, we say every time he says it 'no adams not bad he is good' so that adam too can hear us say this, i've explained how it could affect ds2 badly and he could end up feeling like he really is bad etc but this seems to mean nothing to ds1 - i'm guessing that that kind of reasoning is a bit beyond him but i had to try. I tell ds1 that he can say he doesnt like ds2 or he is irritating him or whatever specific thing but not that he is bad and disgusting cos its not true. At times through shear frustration we have shouted at him, got frustrated and angry with him about it - none of these things make any difference, he continues to call him bad many times a day. I feel powerless to get him to stop - how do i get him not to say these horrible things all the time?

[MarynMunchkins]

I would have your 5 yo come up with specific things he likes and finds "good" about his brother. You might also consider having him color an apology - it takes more time and helps kids think twice about name-calling and then saying "sorry".

If you have home videos, it might help your 5 yo to see himself acting like a 2 yo too.

Ds1 does begrudgingly admit he likes playing with ds2 and would miss that if he wasnt here, it would be interesting to see if he could come up with any 'good' things about him other than that :0)

As to the sorry thing - well, he wont say sorry, when we challenge ds1 about calling ds2 'bad' he just replies strongly 'but he is bad' and starts singing his 'bad baby' song - its like i cant 'force' his mouth not to say the words and nor can i 'force' him to apologize - does there need to be some sort of consequence every time he says it or is that punitive - i'm confused?

[MarynMunchkins]

Absolutely there should be consequences to him insulting and being unkind to his brother.

Were it my kid, I'd have them go to their room/comfort corner until they were able to apologize and make amends for being unkind. I'd also work at teach him some more expressive words when he says his brother is bad. "You sound frustrated. You don't like it when he ___. Tell him, 'I don't like that. It frustrates me.' "

2 yo's are rather annoying. They get into stuff and don't leave things alone, and they tantrum about a lot. I would let your 5 yo know it's okay to be irritated by these things and not want his brother around. At the same time, it's not okay to be unkind to people when we're upset.

[runningmama]

We are right in the middle of this. We also have two boys, 5 and 2. Our oldest sings alot of songs about how bad the youngest is and talking about how he's going to smash his face. It usually has no connection with actions performed by the two year old, it's like he's singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. It just comes out naturally. The oldest also can be very quick to hitting and pushing if the littlest gets into his things. So, we've started to vocalize a rule: There is no speaking or acting violence in this house. We then ask him to show gentleness to his brother. If he's not ready to do that yet, he takes some time in his room until he is ready. I realized when we started this that I've gotten into the habit of raising my voice from across the room and telling him to stop it instead of going to my son, getting on his level and helping him show kindness. When I've consistently been doing this there seems to be a positive change in his behavior. It's by no means gone, just better.

Runningmama - that is precisely our situation and the attitude of our oldest - the quick to hurt the younger brother thing too - it drives us insane - i cant leave them alone together even for a minute - I like your suggestion and will definately be using it!

Marynmunchkins - i put him in his room the other day after an incident until he was ready to say sorry - there was a lot of screaming and me in and out of the room for about 30mins but eventually he calmed down and gave an amazingly lovely apology to his little brother and has been catching himself since - he keeps coming to me whispering - 'i nearly called adam and ugly bad baby then but i stopped myself' - i can see he is deliberately 'nearly' saying it and is enjoying the game of coming to tell me but it is an amazing improvement - maybe he just needed to know how serious the offence was for him to make the change and me insisting on the apology before coming out of his room again achieved that. Thanks for your clear guidance!

[sweetpeasmommy]

Have you scripted what he CAN say? You may not say unkind things to your brother, you may say I am sad, angry, frustrated and I need help.

Yeh i do script about what he can say if it is an actual 'situation' thats going on with a trigger but as runningmama said with her son - he just sings the stuff spontaneously most of the time like he is singing a pleasant nursery rhyme to himself - not really any trigger or immediate reason other than ongoing dislike! I will double check i'm doing enough scripting though just in case i'm missing something!