So what can we DO?

[StrangeTraveller]

I just started a facebook page, hopefully drawing people in to see alternatives.

I fully agree with encouraging any and everyone to pull their books and support whenever you see it

[newday]

Originally Posted by mountainash

I remember reading a quote a long time ago about how it's harder for people to separate from something than it is for them to separate unto something.

Before parents will be willing to give up following the Pearl's teaching, I suspect they will need non-punitive tools for setting firm boundaries. Actually, many parents will simply need to know that they can enforce boundaries without inflicting physical pain. The idea is out there that anyone who doesn't spank their children lets their children do whatever they like.

Another thing that deserves to be accentuated is the need for parents to step back and ask themselves, What do my children really learn from my preferred disciplinary tactics? If I spank my child for throwing a tantrum when he is angry, what am I really teaching him? The spanking may get him to stop tantruming, but have I actually taught him how to deal with his anger appropriately?

ashley - that is so helpful!!
I would elaborate but

[BornFreeBaby]

I read in one of the news stories that the DA is linking the death to 'fundamentalist' child training, but there is no mention of the Pearls by name.

I hope that they further investigate and charge the Pearls with accessory to murder.

And I agree that the mainstream Christians who spank and Focus on the family should get involved and issue warnings about these teachings- because even the families that I know that spank have found this case to be disgusting.

Even mainstream spankers would not condone using plumbing line to beat their children to death.

Is there someone at Focus we can email? What about their radio show?

---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 AM ----------

Originally Posted by mountainash

I remember reading a quote a long time ago about how it's harder for people to separate from something than it is for them to separate unto something.

Before parents will be willing to give up following the Pearl's teaching, I suspect they will need non-punitive tools for setting firm boundaries. Actually, many parents will simply need to know that they can enforce boundaries without inflicting physical pain. The idea is out there that anyone who doesn't spank their children lets their children do whatever they like.

Another thing that deserves to be accentuated is the need for parents to step back and ask themselves, What do my children really learn from my preferred disciplinary tactics? If I spank my child for throwing a tantrum when he is angry, what am I really teaching him? The spanking may get him to stop tantruming, but have I actually taught him how to deal with his anger appropriately?

I agree but the issue goes much deeper than just giving these people gentle parenting tools. The issue is that they fully believe in their heart that it is not a CHOICE they have as to whether to spank or not. They believe it is God's command to them - that they MUST spank and to not spank would be to disobey God themselves.

---------- Post added at 08:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------

Just saw a newer news article that DOES mention the Pearls
You can read it HERE

[3PeasInAPod]

I would think Nancy Grace might be more interested in airing the story, then Hannity,Palin? We could email her.

[StrangeTraveller]

After having an extensive and exhausting discussion on fb about this, something that I have noticed is that we have to start slowly. My point on there was not to go straight to "DON'T SPANK!" That is a lot for people to chew on, and not necessarily the goal.

My point was to expose Michael Pearl as a false teacher and to define discipline *leaving the option for alternatives.* Because the English translations of the Hebrew words like discipline and chastise and rod can be both physical and figurative, I only want to start by leaving the door open for alternatives.

In my opinion, the starting point should be to reject Michael Pearl as an outright false teacher and extremely dangerous. Part of that teaching is that GOD'S WAY is to use corporal punishment. Period.

If people can first reject Michael Pearl (which would be HUGE. Huge.), then reject the notion that corporal punishment is the only way, then, in whatever small way, maybe people will start to be freed of this. Maybe then they won't feel trapped into such methods. If there are options, if one way is not THE way, the Pearl can be rejected..abuse can be rejected..spanking can be rejected because it is not THE way.

And lemme tell ya..this is going to take, aside from pulling support from their literature, etc, us being vulnerable. This discussion was raw, it was vulnerable, it was difficult. But, in the end, people surprised me. Someone had been reading it and jumped in mentioning that "something seems off" with the Pearls, and I really did NOT expect that from her. The person I was debating with thanked me for revealing his name so that they are aware, and she acknowledged my viewpoint once she realized I wasn't attacking her. We have to be vulnerable...and it is exhausting to me.

[Synesthesia]

See my post up there. Let's write
Oprah
Dr. Phil
The Doctors
Dr. Oz
The View
Dateline
60 Minutes
Foxnews
Cnn
ect with snail mail and email. Let's do it!
Let's also call various places, news stations and the like. They may say, "It's just 2 children that died." but more children are suffering because of these Pearls. They are totally dragging Christianity in the mud, twisting things and stating that compassion and mercy are poisonous to children, but cruelty is acceptable.

[StrangeTraveller]

Originally Posted by Synesthesia

See my post up there. Let's write
Oprah
Dr. Phil
The Doctors
Dr. Oz
The View
Dateline
60 Minutes
Foxnews
Cnn
ect with snail mail and email. Let's do it!
Let's also call various places, news stations and the like. They may say, "It's just 2 children that died." but more children are suffering because of these Pearls. They are totally dragging Christianity in the mud, twisting things and stating that compassion and mercy are poisonous to children, but cruelty is acceptable.

My only concern with it coming from the news is that fundamentalist/Conservative Christians will only hear that a teacher who promotes spanking is being accused of being extreme. They will then lump it in with their own brand of "Biblical discipline" and view this as just more "persecution" and the World hating them for being different.

It takes a long. time. when talking to some of these people to get them to see Pearl for who he is and not for just someone who promotes spanking so therefore must be right.

[Synesthesia]

Originally Posted by StrangeTraveller

My only concern with it coming from the news is that fundamentalist/Conservative Christians will only hear that a teacher who promotes spanking is being accused of being extreme. They will then lump it in with their own brand of "Biblical discipline" and view this as just more "persecution" and the World hating them for being different.

It takes a long. time. when talking to some of these people to get them to see Pearl for who he is and not for just someone who promotes spanking so therefore must be right.

Hurm, the world is more annoyed with them for being way too harsh on kids. Plus, folks here are conservative and can show that not only can one be conservative and not spank, but they can be conservative and not agree with folks like Pearl and have kids that are not in motorcycle gangs. And are actually still Christian too.
I saw this is a worthy risk if it can plant the seeds of doubt in these folks so they can see it not as persecution, but as trying to be compassionate towards kids, but that can be a later step.

The first step can be exposing these people for the cruel frauds they are.

[Meli]

Originally Posted by StrangeTraveller

After having an extensive and exhausting discussion on fb about this, something that I have noticed is that we have to start slowly. My point on there was not to go straight to "DON'T SPANK!" That is a lot for people to chew on, and not necessarily the goal.

Part of the reason I have not linked to anything on FB etc is that I have no one in my circle of friends (Facebook or IRL) who has any link to the Pearl's material. There is no real connection there, and if I was to make one, or even just post as a stand alone, the natural link would be to similar but less extreme practises such as those in Ezzo, Tripp and Dobson. I have not chosen to go that way because I agree with you that taring them all with the same brush would not be helpful - it would lessen the argument against Pearl rather than strengthen the argument against the others. It makes it too easy to say "well I don't use Pearl, I only use Ezzo - it's clear than Pearl goes too far, but Ezzo is the "godly" version". IYKWIM

So I am just accumulating links in my favourites so if it does come up I have them ready to go.

Originally Posted by StrangeTraveller

My only concern with it coming from the news is that fundamentalist/Conservative Christians will only hear that a teacher who promotes spanking is being accused of being extreme. They will then lump it in with their own brand of "Biblical discipline" and view this as just more "persecution" and the World hating them for being different.

It takes a long. time. when talking to some of these people to get them to see Pearl for who he is and not for just someone who promotes spanking so therefore must be right.

I think you have a really good point here. So, while I agree that the word needs to get out (I want to poison people's minds against these materials before well meaning friends put them in their hands) I think to reach people who are already involved, we need to keep it local. We need to talk to our pastors, our homeschooling groups, our mommy groups at church, post on our blogs about what gentle discipline looks like and that it WORKS (the Pearls' lie and say that it won't).

More than that, we have to take back "God's way". The Pearl's pray not only on our fears as parents, but our fears as Christians. They teach that their way is scriptural.

We have to expose their faulty theology: nothing removes guilt from anyone except the blood of Christ. Not the rod, not a switching. No No No!

We have to share how parenting children the way God parents us, leads to a close personal relationship between parent and child that is based on respect. Since God has taken our punishment, and we are no longer under wrath, likewise we do not have to punish our children. God allows us to take the temporal consequences of our actions, as many of us also do with our children. But if we make bad choices, and suffer for them, God never leaves us, never turns away. He walks alongside us! And we do the same for our kids, adding grace and mercy into consequences, and responsibility.

The God we follow is one of compassion, and mercy. Ultimately, I could never imagine having a conversation with Jesus where he encouraged me to tempt my child, and then switch them for their failure. He doesn't lead us into temptation! I couldn't imagine Jesus telling me to spank or switch my children for failure to obey, or failure to do right. And I couldn't imagine him telling me to accept nothing less than perfect obedience.

After all, I'm not perfectly obedient. That's why I need the grace and mercy of Jesus. How can we expect of our children what we are unable to accomplish? How does that line up with the God of the Bible? And isn't His example what we should aspire to?

The world will never reach the hearts of other Christian parents. Only we can do that.

For my part, I will continue to blog about this, and I will continue to seek out blogs of Pearl's followers, and speak gently to them. It was done for me, and I thank God every day for it.

(Sorry for the long-windedness, I'm a bit passionate on this subject)

[StrangeTraveller]

The world will never reach the hearts of other Christian parents. Only we can do that.

This is totally it for me. This has to come from the inside, not from the media. If FOTF renounced Pearl because of an outcry from Christians, something would happen. If..oh..60 Minutes renounced it, it would be "the world misunderstanding."

[Hermana Linda]

Originally Posted by StrangeTraveller

This is totally it for me. This has to come from the inside, not from the media. If FOTF renounced Pearl because of an outcry from Christians, something would happen. If..oh..60 Minutes renounced it, it would be "the world misunderstanding."

Right. On top of that, there is a risk of him becoming a "martyr."

[Synesthesia]

He's won't be a martyr to me and to other folks who are tired of this nonsense. I will not feel sorry for a man who teaches people to hurt children over stupid things.
It's about those kids. If these folks go, "Aw, poor Michael Pearl, how can the WORLD attack a man of GOD." Folks will have to point out the pain and suffering of these kids and how it is NOT acceptable at all.

[Hermana Linda]

Originally Posted by Synesthesia

He's won't be a martyr to me and to other folks who are tired of this nonsense. I will not feel sorry for a man who teaches people to hurt children over stupid things.
It's about those kids. If these folks go, "Aw, poor Michael Pearl, how can the WORLD attack a man of GOD." Folks will have to point out the pain and suffering of these kids and how it is NOT acceptable at all.

Actually, I meant to Christians. It could backfire and get him more followers. There is no danger of non-Christians following him. None at all. Nobody would even consider anything he says to make sense unless they are Christians. Even most Christians don't fall for it. But, the danger is to Christians. And if he were in jail, his work could become even more popular. That is what I meant. And it was just a thought, anyway. Brainstorming, so to speak.

I'm still considering the possibility of having him charged. It occurs to me that being charged is not the same as convicted. I can see both sides of the argument and I'm torn.

[Synesthesia]

Originally Posted by Hermana Linda

Actually, I meant to Christians. It could backfire and get him more followers. There is no danger of non-Christians following him. None at all. Nobody would even consider anything he says to make sense unless they are Christians. Even most Christians don't fall for it. But, the danger is to Christians. And if he were in jail, his work could become even more popular. That is what I meant. And it was just a thought, anyway. Brainstorming, so to speak.

I'm still considering the possibility of having him charged. It occurs to me that being charged is not the same as convicted. I can see both sides of the argument and I'm torn.

That is something to worry about. I can't understand why people find him so appealing. It's alien to me. To my sense of right and wrong, but if people were raised in that strict way, are they more likely, like in those books by Alice Miller, to think that sort of treatment is right?
It seems so harsh to me. I can't fanthum hitting a child over anything, and these folks are hitting kids for crying for them, for normal child things. It's a culture I don't understand, even though when I lived with my mother I grew up with that sort of thing, and she did too, worse than I did.