Spanking "works"

[ECingMama]

Excellent thread. Subbing.

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by raisa

But my most succinct response to any spanking discussion is, "if only I could spank without hitting my kids!"

That may be the best answer for spanking I have ever heard. I am going to use that.

Originally Posted by Virginia

Thanks, ladies.
I guess I'm optimistic and hopeful that we'll come to an agreement on this issue (and approach parenting with similar mindsets) BEFORE we have kids. I can foresee a lot of tension if we have a child and he still wants to spank. I know it's not impossible and that many of you awesome mamas here have set good examples for your husbands. That's encouraging to me. I'd really love if he and I could agree on this issue, though.

...and I know I can't change his heart or his mind I'm just trying to educate myself so that when we do discuss it in conversation, I can be well-equipped to give an answer for my conviction

You're right, you cannot change anything. That is God's job. But you can fill your tool box now and you can pray for him. You can also make it clear that spanking is never okay and if he wants to spank, you will come between him and the child so that you are the one getting hit. After all if hitting a kid is okay, surely hitting an adult is fine. Though, I would wait until there is a baby before I threw that out there.

[walkwallfall]

*decided that the disobediant thing he wanted to do was worth the spanking
*was afraid to admit doing wrong to get out of a spanking
*lied to avoid a spanking
*processed by swapping spanking horror stories with his friends
*flinched when he saw a raised hand (or belt or spoon)
*figured all that mattered was whether or not he got caught
* was confused or angry because he did not know exactly why he got spanked (or figured it was not fair)

All of the above for me. I just started lying.

[MercyInDisguise]

DH and I have been going round and round on this one. He is fine with not spanking as long as whatever we are doing for discipline is "working." But he says things like, "Even if C is a really easy-going kid and something works for him, we might have a kid at some point that nothing else "works" for."

I have tried comparing it to CIO (which he is adamantly against), saying yeah, sometimes CIO gets babies to sleep better, but that doesn't make it right. The ends don't justify the means - same for spanking. I am just trying to give him other tools right now so that he never gets to the point where he feels like he "has to" spank.

As for talking with others about it, I really haven't brought it up with anyone because I feel like I get the whole "Oh, she's a first time mom, she'll come around" attitude a lot.

[BarefootBetsy]

Yep - especially the lying

FWIW, I also have a good relationship with my parents as an adult. They also respect the fact that my kids are MY kids and that I've chosen not to spank them My dad doesn't understand why on earth we would choose this, but he doesn't interfere and I don't need him to understand why, I just need him to leave me alone and not bug me about it so we're good.

My mom's totally supportive of us not spanking. She was raised in an abusive household and when I shared with her Dr. Sears' list of people who should never spank... yeah... she agreed that she probably should never have gone down that path. I have anger issues (takes a lot to make me mad, but if I'm really angry, I'd be afraid I'd hit them and never stop) so I'm definitely on Dr. Sears' "should not spank" list also.

But see... my parents didn't JUST spank They also taught me things in positive ways between spankings. I appreciate that they cared about me enough to raise me in a way that they thought was best. I appreciate that they loved me enough to set firm boundaries. I wish they'd been able to do those things without spanking, but they didn't know any differently.

Simply put: I want better for my children. I've never hit them - yelling is what I struggle with since hitting was never an option I let myself have in the first place - but I struggle with yelling almost daily. I'm getting better, but it's hard.

So I don't see myself as a victim or anything like that. Someone came on Dare to Disciple a while back and said he was so sad to read adult children from good Christian homes who had victim complexes and yadda yadda. Um... clearly that fellow doesn't know me at all if that's what he thinks! I have great respect for my parents and love for them and a good relationship with them, but none of those things would make it okay for me to spank my children - HIT them.

They are tiny compared to me. Nothing would make me HITTING my CHILDREN be an okay thing. No matter how "okay" I turned out. No matter how good my relationship with my parents is. No matter that my parents mitigated the negative effects of spanking quite a lot by teaching me constantly in other ways. I know better than that and it's on ME to do better for my kids.

[Maggirayne]

Originally Posted by LilyRN

DH and I have been going round and round on this one. He is fine with not spanking as long as whatever we are doing for discipline is "working." But he says things like, "Even if C is a really easy-going kid and something works for him, we might have a kid at some point that nothing else "works" for."

I have tried comparing it to CIO (which he is adamantly against), saying yeah, sometimes CIO gets babies to sleep better, but that doesn't make it right. The ends don't justify the means - same for spanking. I am just trying to give him other tools right now so that he never gets to the point where he feels like he "has to" spank.

The thought behind that is that nothing else with work. Really? So have you really tried everything you can and actually used other tools, or are you just tired of GOYBing?

My dad said some kids 'need' it.
"Um, you think some kids want and need and deserve to be hit?"

No, it's a basic human right to not be hit, to live in peace, not in fear.

People don't spank people who are bigger than themselves. They only spank people smaller or who are so dominated by fear they don't realize they could defend themselves or are incapable. What does that say about people who spank? Logically, spanking does not make sense.

My counselor said "Kids fear the emotion they feel and avoid the feeling not necessarily the undesired behaviour."

subbing.....

There are so many great books out there but the first one I ever read was "Kids are worth it!" by Barbara Coloroso

It made it all make sense for me. It offered me tools that I used from day one. It also talks about the different parenting styles and how you were parented.

It's the reason I eventually found gcm

[everydaygrace]

This is a great thread. Subbing so I can follow along.

[marbles]

DWC and I were both spanked, and we were both on team spanking. Then I started reading and researching and looking into my past and was uncomfortable with spanking. Then I was at my parents house with the whole family and my dad told my nephew not to hit the fire pit thing with a stick. The nephew kept doing it and when my dad saw it he forcibly took the stick away and I felt fear. I'm 25 and I was afraid of my dad's anger. So I talked through those feelings with DWC and started pulling out all these issues that spanking has caused. He doesn't have the same negative reaction to spanking as I (turns out he was spanked as an older kid even into teenage years and only a handful of times). So I told him I'm fine with spanking as long as it would also be appropriate to slap the child in the face. Hitting is hitting, it doesn't really matter where. He agreed with that, so that's our plan. We will hit someone when the offense would merit a hit.
As for it working, what other people have said. Lots of things "work" to produce desirable behavior. You know what will get a baby to stop crying? Never touch him. That'll work really fast.

[NewCovenantMama]

Originally Posted by Joanne

Let's not talk about spanking.

I've just added this to my list of links to share with people!

[nadezhda]

Spanking "worked" on me.

It "worked" to instill fear...of failure, of "disobedience" (although I may or may not know why something was disobedient), of my parents.

Was my behavior outwardly acceptable? Most of the time.
Did I understand the whys and wherefores of acceptable behavior? Nope. I was just conditioned to act a certain way. Now that I'm in my 30's, I'm finally internalizing beliefs that it appeared I was holding to my entire life. I was play-acting my faith, and I was afraid to truly throw myself on God's grace b/c I didn't know if I was good enough. Yes, I was told "God's grace is sufficient" but my parents' grace wasn't, and that was the whole of my experience.

[MercyInDisguise]

Originally Posted by Maggirayne

The thought behind that is that nothing else with work. Really? So have you really tried everything you can and actually used other tools, or are you just tired of GOYBing?

Exactly. I think he is still thinking of the end result as needing to be obedience.

[raisa]

to both you and your husband and prayers as you think about starting a family. I have faith that you both will find a great and good path through this. When your first child is born you will both become attached to this wonderful little person and by the time they are 18 months old and starting to be more difficult, you will have such a relationship and so many tools to use instead of spanking!

A quick story about how spanking works. Years ago my sister and BIL spanked their young son (1.5, maybe early 2yo) to keep him in bed at bedtime. He'd cry, go back to bed, but then come out of his room for them. Spanked, to bed, come out of the room, over. She was so frustrated -- was she supposed to spank him faster? Harder? I know I posted about it years ago on GCM because it was such a poignant story of a child hurting and yearning for love so badly that he would risk another spanking just to be with his parents for comfort.

Bless his heart my nephew is 8 years old and they have been struggling with nighttime toilet training for YEARS now. I know this affects all children for many reasons and can't be blamed solely on spanking. But when she says "why won't he just WAKE UP and come out of his room to pee?" I can't help but remember how she was determined to break his spirit so he'd never come out of his room at night again

Originally Posted by rjy9343

That may be the best answer for spanking I have ever heard. I am going to use that.

You're right, you cannot change anything. That is God's job. But you can fill your tool box now and you can pray for him. You can also make it clear that spanking is never okay and if he wants to spank, you will come between him and the child so that you are the one getting hit. After all if hitting a kid is okay, surely hitting an adult is fine. Though, I would wait until there is a baby before I threw that out there.

I am with this. I am so very against spanking I would not have a child with someone who would spank because my children are NOT going to be hit. I would physically put myself between my child and anyone who would try to harm them, including a spouse. Time and time again I read of incredibly heartbroken women on here who think it is wrong to spank but cannot get their husband to stop hitting the kids. I would not choose to walk into that scenario. I know that sounds extreme but it is how I feel.