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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing. A public forum. Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:
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02-19-2011, 05:43 PM | #136 | |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
Quote:
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Purple_Kangaroo Seeking truth and understanding. I have 4 precious children: A (born Feb 2001), M (June 2002), E (Aug 2005) and N (Dec 2013). AMEN! |
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02-19-2011, 05:53 PM | #137 |
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
The problem is 'they' have undermined their credibility by involving themselves in things outside of home school defense. You can't be the figure head of an organization like that AND talk and write about things such as Harris does and not have it effect the organization.
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Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 |
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02-19-2011, 05:56 PM | #138 | |
Rose Garden
Bar/Bat Mitzvah picture with husband Michael.
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
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And it does leave some HSers feeling a tad defenseless beacuse they refuse to align with them
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Heather ESFJ T4 Messianic Joshua-13 Christina- 11 Amalia Linda-8.5 Trinity-7 Gabriel-5 w/ADHD, ASD & Dyslexia Taylor Jordan11/15/04 SkyeDakota10/12/05 Life is a pile of good things & bad things The good things don't always soften the bad things but the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things |
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02-19-2011, 06:00 PM | #139 | ||
Rose Garden
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
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Yes, by requoting myself I just wanted to re-clarify what I was saying about different definitions of partiarchy in the thread in general, but specifically in light of comments made by TestifyToLove,ArmsOfLove and cobluegirl. I think there's a big difference between patriarchy as a broad idea that women and men have different roles or spiritual leadership, vs. The Patriarchy Movement as taught by people like Vision Forum, Patriarch magazine, etc. I am a little confused about the difference between patriarchal in this broader sense vs. complementarian or any other belief that there is some difference in role or headship between men and women. I don't at this point in my life necessarily believe that Scripture allows for women to hold the role of pastor, and I do think there is certainly room to believe/argue that the Bible talks about some sort of headship or spiritual authority held by the husband/father in a family, along with the idea of mutual submission of husbands and wives and all believers to each other. I'm not ready to throw out everything I understand the Bible to say about the existence of authority and headship within nations, the church, and families. But I am staunchly against most of what VF and those in the Patriarchy Movement teach. Putting anyone that believes there is any difference in role or responsibility between men and women in any context or any way into that camp as "associated with Vision Forum" seems really unreasonable to me, as that would probably include most of Christendom. ---------- Post added at 01:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 AM ---------- Quote:
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Purple_Kangaroo Seeking truth and understanding. I have 4 precious children: A (born Feb 2001), M (June 2002), E (Aug 2005) and N (Dec 2013). AMEN! |
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02-19-2011, 06:16 PM | #140 | |
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
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Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 |
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02-19-2011, 06:34 PM | #141 | |
Rose Garden
Why climb a mountain? Because it's there!
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
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Yes, Above Rubies. Wow, that is sad. I'm not QF but I find AR to be very inspiring. I may write to her and ask her if she really believes all that yuck. |
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02-19-2011, 06:36 PM | #142 |
Rose Garden
"You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be."
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
Purple_Kangaroo - Ah, I think you misunderstand the reason for the list... my purpose was to simply make a list so people would know what teachers/books/organizations to watch out for and what companies were affiliated - certainly not specifically for boycotting purposes I mean, people can do with this knowledge what they will, but my purpose was not to encourage people to boycott or to smear anyone's name.
After all, these people are proud of what they believe or they wouldn't believe it and promote it in the way they do Besides that, I think it's important to know the ties and how various people, organizations, and books are connected. Especially since this stuff looks so innocuous from the outside and picking up a book like Provan's could easily lead people down this path. Folks who support VF could easily recommend this book to someone who might read it without as much discernment as they would if they'd known it was a book commonly referred to by people in this movement. That's all I intended. Does that help clarify?
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Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world. |
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02-19-2011, 06:41 PM | #143 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
she's always supported that life. I have AR's going back decades and they were very Patriarchal.
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02-19-2011, 07:11 PM | #144 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
Purple Kangaroo, you seem very normal and very much grounded in reality. But remember back in the 80's when people were beginning to HS you typically did it because you were some sort of fringe wing nut (I can remember families that made the Pearls look mainstream by comparison) or your child had some sort of disability that made regular schooling difficult or even impossible. BJU put out (at that time anyway) great text books for HS. The problem is that because they have always been vocal in their beliefs they have been tied to the true fringe like ATI and VF since those groups espouse views that are at first blush very closely related. Bob Jones also has said many things that have been taken out of context and grossly distorted, so it is very easy to link him with those and other groups. It is beyond unfair and I don't like it, but there is not much we can do about it. I also agree with elcollins. Like it or not, when you are the face of an organization your views are taken to be the official position of that organization. If someone who was an intern ten years ago or some entry level kid said those things then I would think her thoughts are a little harsh. But I think that it also show goes to show how we really do need to fact check what we read or hear before we make a decision about someone or an organization.
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Rita s IstJ Wife to my brilliant geek James iNtJ since 4/08 Mom to our angel boy Jay 5/08 our quirky miracle DD Ivy 6/10 mellow miracle DS Jacob 7/15 Often Please forgive my frequent typos Standing firmly on Team Lioness!!! Roar!!! I am ready for people to know I am a GCM find me on Facebook Last edited by rjy9343; 02-19-2011 at 09:48 PM. |
02-19-2011, 07:14 PM | #145 | |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
Quote:
To some extent it really depends for me on the purpose and focus of the organization. I'm going to be a lot more careful about the theology of the lead pastor of a church I'm considering joining than the theology of the president of a rabbit club, partly just because theology isn't going to have all that much impact on how well someone does their job of running rabbit shows vs. running a church. HSLDA is an organization that doesn't require members or participating organizations to agree to any statement of faith or even identify themselves with any religion at all in order to be members or receive group discounts or other benefits. Their focus is on legally defending the right to homeschool, so I'm a lot less cautious about the views of the leadership than I would be about joining an organization that was specifically engaged in spiritual teaching or required adherence to a particular statement of faith. Who is the "Harris" you are talking about, anyway? I couldn't find anyone named Harris listed on the HSLDA website as having a role in the organization. The President is J. Michael Smith, Esq, and I admit I don't really know anything about him. Michael Farris is the other founder.
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Purple_Kangaroo Seeking truth and understanding. I have 4 precious children: A (born Feb 2001), M (June 2002), E (Aug 2005) and N (Dec 2013). AMEN! |
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02-19-2011, 07:27 PM | #146 |
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
__________________
Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 |
02-19-2011, 08:29 PM | #147 |
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Posts: 11,249
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
Purple, I see your point about HSLDA
I think, as Betsy pointed out, the list she compiled is more a "for your information and awareness" list, not necessarily a "boycott" list. I don't know of an alternative to the HSLDA, and although I am dismayed to realize the connections to a belief system which I hate, and I will continue to support them. That is quite a bit different, in my mind, than purchasing books from the VF website or attending a conference where a Patriarchal speaker would be giving a message. kwim? This thread has been very interesting to me, thank you all so much for participating! |
02-19-2011, 09:05 PM | #148 |
Rose Garden
"You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be."
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Location: Seeking Simplicity
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
TTL mentioned (to me, in person, not on the board) that there's an alternative to the HSLDA for legal issues... I cannot remember what it was. I'll ask her tomorrow if she doesn't come back to the thread by then. I need to know anyhow because I would like to consider the pros and cons of using the alternative.
And no, I was definitely NOT compiling a boycott list The thought never even crossed my mind and it took me a good long while to even figure out what Purple was talking about I just gathered together some info for informational purposes. That's all. Do with the info what you will. Some people don't care where companies spend their $ - others do. Personally, I mostly just care that I avoid teachers and organizations that promote false doctrine - especially if their actual teachings seem innocent enough, but they're working with a company like VF or giving them funding.
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Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world. |
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02-19-2011, 10:29 PM | #149 | |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
Quote:
ITA!!!
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Purple_Kangaroo Seeking truth and understanding. I have 4 precious children: A (born Feb 2001), M (June 2002), E (Aug 2005) and N (Dec 2013). AMEN! |
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02-19-2011, 10:32 PM | #150 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 79,607
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Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum
I walked out of a seminar being given at our HS convention a few years ago by Michael Ferris when he allowed the dialogue with the audience to turn to all the legal ways to cause your children pain in public and more likely avoid having CPS called on you. I have NO respect for the man.
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