Spanking "works"

[zak]

Originally Posted by mommy5

but back again to this : spanking is not "hitting" its Biblical discipline. my DH still says this.

But if he wants to be literal about it, he should be hitting them with baseball bats. There is no definition of "spanking" in the Bible that speaks to a flat hand applied to a rear end. If he wants to take the rod verses for what they are worth, he'd use a bat, that's what he'd have to be doing to be "Biblical" about it.

[tigerlily]

A little O/T but every time I see this thread I emphasize the word works and give it the meaning found in this verse:

For it is by Grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves. It is the gift of God -- not by works so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

And really, that's quite telling for me, b/c spanking seems to emphasizes works over the gift of God's grace.

[BarefootBetsy]

Literally speaking... spanking is hitting. You can NOT spank without hitting. I've asked people how they're managing to spank their child(ren) without hitting them and usually that gets a lightbulb to go on.

If someone is spanking without hitting... well... I'd say that they aren't actually spanking

I'm quoting myself from here:

And now, what exactly is “spanking” and how does that fit in with what we have learned so far in our small study? Dictionary.com has several definitions:

to strike
a blow or slap
to slap or smack

Okay. So, it’s basically hitting. Striking, slapping, and smacking someone are all forms of hitting and the phrase “coming to blows with someone” generally indicates a fight which involves hitting. I’m not going to tiptoe around this terminology, I think that would be insulting to the readers of this blog. I want to always be honest with you, even if the truth as I see it is difficult to read.

Just to be thorough, here are the dictionary.com definitions of “hit:”

to deal a blow
to come against with an impact
to strike

I find it interesting to note that neither “hit” nor “spank” are listed in the definitions of each other. It would appear that our culture does not consider spanking to be hitting even though they share many of the same definitions and, from outward appearance alone, would appear to be the exact same act.

Yes, spanking is often done with the best of intentions, but when it comes right down to it, it’s hitting. In fact, it’s hitting someone much smaller than the person doing the hitting – something which we teach our children not to do and, I assure you, the irony is not lost on them even when it may not be recognized by the parent in question.

The definitions are almost identical I have yet to meet someone who could spank without hitting... even though many people insist that spanking isn't hitting before they've thought about it logically.

[ArmsOfLove]

im coming to dread weekends. he has been trying with me for almost a year to not spank..but he's not really on board, so wont really try to gain any further understanding about whats normal and so on.. so he's just frusterated that our house is loud, and hectic and people cry and bicker with each other. he even said that he would spank the kids for following him around ( if he already told them to stop)
anyway. sorry to buny trail with my own problem.

have you tried telling your dh the bolded? I would also be very concerned about his seemingly complete lack of understanding and acceptance of normal--both from children and with a large family of many children That many children *are* loud, in each other's space, cry sometimes, and follow parents and older people around. That isn't misbehavior--it's life with a large family.

Does he read at all? Would he be willing to read (or listen on book tape) to things about large families and age appropriate behavior?

[SweetCaroline]

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove

have you tried telling your dh the bolded? I would also be very concerned about his seemingly complete lack of understanding and acceptance of normal--both from children and with a large family of many children That many children *are* loud, in each other's space, cry sometimes, and follow parents and older people around. That isn't misbehavior--it's life with a large family.

Does he read at all? Would he be willing to read (or listen on book tape) to things about large families and age appropriate behavior?

no he reads ALOT..just stuff written in the 1500's

[Johns_Gal]

Originally Posted by bolt.

That's absolutely true.

The other simple fact is that if you did to an adult what is done to children in the name of spanking (if it could be done)... you would find it to be a very useful tool in enforcing behavioural control over adults too.

I would sure keep my house more clean if someone was going to come and hit me if they were unsatisfied. With adults, it's obvious that such a set-up it wouldn't be part of a loving healthy relationship. Why isn't it just as obvious about children?

Ugh, YES. I get irked at women who are pro-spanking... I tend to ask them if they did the lunch dishes yet, and they better hurry before their husband comes home and slaps them around for it.

There will *not* be violence in my home, I won't have it.

My husband was not raised well. Neither was I, but while his was just permissive parenting, mine was abusive. One sure way to have me ready to fight is to threaten my kid with pain.

The day DH scared DS, I think he figured that out. He tried to say I was "interfering" in his parenting and I shot back a bit of "THAT was not parenting, THAT was bullying and just plain laziness." And I proceeded to get up on the couch so I could be bigger than him and look mean while I told him to clean up. Not the most cool headed plan but holy cow, the light that dawned in his eyes. Seeing him apologize to our little boy mollified the beast.

Originally Posted by bolt.

That's absolutely true.

The other simple fact is that if you did to an adult what is done to children in the name of spanking (if it could be done)... you would find it to be a very useful tool in enforcing behavioural control over adults too.

I would sure keep my house more clean if someone was going to come and hit me if they were unsatisfied. With adults, it's obvious that such a set-up it wouldn't be part of a loving healthy relationship. Why isn't it just as obvious about children?

Excellent point. One of my favorite, and funny, come backs is "Violence begets violence. If you don't believe me, I dare you to try to hit one of kids."

---------- Post added at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------

Originally Posted by mommy5

but back again to this : spanking is not "hitting" its Biblical discipline. my DH still says this.

he's a great guy..but. he thinks you spank for "unwanted behavior" oh my goodness..have you seen the number of kids we have and their ages?? i feel like i work double time on the weekends to swoop in and head off every.issue. before it gets on his nerves ( i do a pretty good job though). im coming to dread weekends. he has been trying with me for almost a year to not spank..but he's not really on board, so wont really try to gain any further understanding about whats normal and so on.. so he's just frusterated that our house is loud, and hectic and people cry and bicker with each other. he even said that he would spank the kids for following him around ( if he already told them to stop)
anyway. sorry to buny trail with my own problem.

Um, this is HIS problem for being impatient and unreasonable what life is like with a large family. I am going to say, it concerns me that it is reading that you are walking around on eggshells to keep your husband from being annoyed and then lashing out by hitting one of your kids. If that happened in my house, he would hit me and then I would call the police.

The idea he would strike and hit one of your children because they were following him, trying to get his attention makes me sick to my stomach. Truthfully, there are red flags screaming in my head over this.

[SweetCaroline]

Originally Posted by Karen

Excellent point. One of my favorite, and funny, come backs is "Violence begets violence. If you don't believe me, I dare you to try to hit one of kids."

---------- Post added at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------



Um, this is HIS problem for being impatient and unreasonable what life is like with a large family. I am going to say, it concerns me that it is reading that you are walking around on eggshells to keep your husband from being annoyed and then lashing out by hitting one of your kids. If that happened in my house, he would hit me and then I would call the police.

The idea he would strike and hit one of your children because they were following him, trying to get his attention makes me sick to my stomach. Truthfully, there are red flags screaming in my head over this.

its more the issue of : if you want them to stop doing something, rather than nag at them to go find something to do..or be irritated that i have 5 kids gathered around me while i try to blow my nose- just start handing out spanks- then they'll listen. its more (to him) about not doing what they're told to do. like i said. to him you spank to deter unwanted behavior

and i should add- he's frusterates himself, because he *threatens* the spanks all day. he rarely does it. but still- its a drag

[Virginia]

Originally Posted by mommy5

but back again to this : spanking is not "hitting" its Biblical discipline. my DH still says this.

he's a great guy..but. he thinks you spank for "unwanted behavior" oh my goodness..have you seen the number of kids we have and their ages?? i feel like i work double time on the weekends to swoop in and head off every.issue. before it gets on his nerves ( i do a pretty good job though). im coming to dread weekends. he has been trying with me for almost a year to not spank..but he's not really on board, so wont really try to gain any further understanding about whats normal and so on.. so he's just frusterated that our house is loud, and hectic and people cry and bicker with each other. he even said that he would spank the kids for following him around ( if he already told them to stop)
anyway. sorry to buny trail with my own problem.

Your situation sounds so frustrating! The bolded just breaks my heart. They might just want to spend time with their dad

And I love bunny trails I'm all for them. No need to apologize for them

Originally Posted by mommy5

its more the issue of : if you want them to stop doing something, rather than nag at them to go find something to do..or be irritated that i have 5 kids gathered around me while i try to blow my nose- just start handing out spanks- then they'll listen. its more (to him) about not doing what they're told to do. like i said. to him you spank to deter unwanted behavior

and i should add- he's frusterates himself, because he *threatens* the spanks all day. he rarely does it. but still- its a drag

Yes, but have you flat out told him that HIS attitude and not the children make you dread the weekends? Does he understand how disruptive his behavior is?

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by Johns_Gal

There will *not* be violence in my home, I won't have it.

The day DH scared DS, I think he figured that out. He tried to say I was "interfering" in his parenting and I shot back a bit of "THAT was not parenting, THAT was bullying and just plain laziness." And I proceeded to get up on the couch so I could be bigger than him and look mean while I told him to clean up. Not the most cool headed plan but holy cow, the light that dawned in his eyes. Seeing him apologize to our little boy mollified the beast.

You are a woman after my own heart. That was a brilliant piece of inspiration to drive home a very important point.

[Hermana Linda]

If your husband keeps making the kids feel rejected, he's going to find himself rejected by them when they are grown up.

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by Hermana Linda

If your husband keeps making the kids feel rejected, he's going to find himself rejected by them when they are grown up.

This is very true. Talk to my dad who still thinks that kids adjust for the adult. He has a strained relationship with all four of us.

Originally Posted by Hermana Linda

If your husband keeps making the kids feel rejected, he's going to find himself rejected by them when they are grown up.

I am not meaning to be mean but this reminds me of something a friend of mine once said, "I sure hope she likes the state run nursing home her kids are going to put her in one day." There is alot of truth in that. Parents should not be surprised when one day their adult children treat them exactly how they were taught to do.

[mokamoto]

Originally Posted by raisa

A quick story about how spanking works. Years ago my sister and BIL spanked their young son (1.5, maybe early 2yo) to keep him in bed at bedtime. He'd cry, go back to bed, but then come out of his room for them. Spanked, to bed, come out of the room, over. She was so frustrated -- was she supposed to spank him faster? Harder? I know I posted about it years ago on GCM because it was such a poignant story of a child hurting and yearning for love so badly that he would risk another spanking just to be with his parents for comfort.

Bless his heart my nephew is 8 years old and they have been struggling with nighttime toilet training for YEARS now. I know this affects all children for many reasons and can't be blamed solely on spanking. But when she says "why won't he just WAKE UP and come out of his room to pee?" I can't help but remember how she was determined to break his spirit so he'd never come out of his room at night again

This just made my eyes well up with tears! How aweful for that poor young man! As exhausted as I am right now bc my daughter (3) has night terrors at 2 am nightly, we all co-sleep bc I can't leave her to suffer her dreams alone. My son, who is 5, still loves to cuddle and we don't turn them away. My struggle is yelling, bc as a previous poster said, hitting/spanking was never an option. But another pp's comment resonated for me on yelling too, although she was talking about spanking- it's easy to be consistent but is lazy parenting and doesn't teach them anything but fear. My kids deserve better from me. for posting this discussion!