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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing.
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:32 PM   #226
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwwr View Post
Wonder what they think of children whose parents are unbelievers? (That would have been me.)
Based on the Gothard view of adoption - you're sunk. It's one of the reasons I feel sick when certain mothers with lots of children(lets say 19, just for the heck of it) sweetly proclaim that 'to say there are too many children is like saying there are too many flowers' - except my son would be viewed as a weed and the sin he 'inheritiated from his father' would need to be guarded against. Of course, they're wrong so you and my little guy are good
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:59 PM   #227
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

Yeah, VF teaches that parents should homeschool partially in order to isolate their children from the influences of non-VF children. So yes, the odds of a child from a non-Christian family ending up at a VF church are extremely slim.

This is part of the reason I haven't posted anything against VF on FB. I have friends who are deeply entrenched in this stuff and I don't want them cutting me off because if they do ever get out... they're going to lose a great deal of their support system and I want to be there just in case
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:39 PM   #228
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcollins View Post
Based on the Gothard view of adoption - you're sunk.
Oh, well, then,...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcollins View Post
sweetly proclaim that 'to say there are too many children is like saying there are too many flowers'
Context is everything. It sounded much better when Mother Teresa said it. Of course, she would consider your son the precious flower that God created him to be.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:47 PM   #229
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

I wrote to ICR (Institute for Creation Research), asking about their affiliation with VF and Doug Phillips, who was listed as a scientist and adjunct professor on their website. Here is the reply:

Quote:
Mr. Philips was, along with others in the list, associated with ICR many years ago when we operated our California-based graduate school, but we have since closed that school. We have updated his byline to reflect his current situation.
I checked, and can no longer find him listed as an adjunct professor or scientist anywhere on their site. I sent a second note, asking for further clarification about any relationship between the two organizations. This is the response:

Quote:
ICR has no formal relationship with Vision Forum. Dr. John Morris, our President, is one of the leading experts in creation science and appears regularly by invitation on many films, news programs, radio interviews, conferences, etc.

As a large international ministry now spanning over 40 years, ICR does not keep up with the internal workings, events, products sales, etc. of other organizations, particularly those whose focus is primarily directed toward topics other than creation science, which is our primary mission.
They responded to both of my letters with the utmost courtesy and thanked me for bringing the outdated info to their attention.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:13 PM   #230
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

Thanks for sharing that information, Brenda. Good work on your part, too, to take the trouble to ask them. It's so easy to jump to conclusions--you were wise not to, but to ask about it.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:51 PM   #231
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

Thank you for answering my question Bolt (& BarefootBetsy) wow
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:04 PM   #232
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum



Quote:
Originally Posted by newday View Post
I don't know of an alternative to the HSLDA,
For us there is WPA. They don't offer legal representation but they dispel some of the fear tactics that HSLDA uses. For example, there is no such thing as educational neglect in our state. But HSLDA says this is something a family could be charged with in our state. Not true.
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:21 PM   #233
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

I could not read all the PP but I did want to give my experience with VF. I personally disagee with a lot thats on VF. However, I found some good reading for my daughters that was about purity, and other girly things. The books didn't get much into marriage stuff, and headship or anything. The books were good reading on topics I want her to value.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:33 AM   #234
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3jays View Post
I could not read all the PP but I did want to give my experience with VF. I personally disagee with a lot thats on VF. However, I found some good reading for my daughters that was about purity, and other girly things. The books didn't get much into marriage stuff, and headship or anything. The books were good reading on topics I want her to value.
That's nearly word-for-word what my mom said looking back on our childhood with VF books. She sincerely wanted us to understand that purity is important. She meant it in the Martin Luther way ("God doesn't need your good works - but your neighbor does.") but VF makes being good, being pure into a perversion of sanctification.

Even the short snippet on purity from their beautiful girlhood shtick:

Purity & Contentment
To be pure in body, mind, and spirit is more precious than all the promises the world offers. Young ladies who experience a beautiful girlhood guard their hearts against anything that would rob them of purity and are content to wait upon the Lord and trust the leadership of Mom and Dad.

No guarding your heart = no beautiful girlhood.
No trusting parents = no beautiful girlhood
No waiting = no beautiful girlhood

Mess up and your beautiful girlhood is gone.

More than that, your chance to live a god-honoring life is gone.

My parents had the best of intentions, and their heads had good theology and a good basis. But us kids, who were actually reading these things and living in a high-pressure world only got that we were defective. We only saw how we weren't living up to some standard of purity instead of realizing that all purity we get is from God and He doesn't run out! :P

I seriously maintain that there is nothing good you can get from VF. If you want your daughters to hold purity and modesty in high esteem then talk to them about why YOU do.

Maybe their more sanctified version of rope would be useful? Their grappling rope is now on sale!
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:03 AM   #235
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

TOTALLY

Quote:
Originally Posted by newday
I don't know of an alternative to the HSLDA,


We joined the Christian Law Association- Home school Legal Advantage.....they do legally represent you. They have a whole page devoted to how they are different from OTHER homeschool law groups I am much happier!
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:22 AM   #236
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3jays View Post
I could not read all the PP but I did want to give my experience with VF. I personally disagee with a lot thats on VF. However, I found some good reading for my daughters that was about purity, and other girly things. The books didn't get much into marriage stuff, and headship or anything. The books were good reading on topics I want her to value.
My mother had a similar idea with me and now regrets it because there is so much emphasis on the external and behavior. But there was not really as much about the heart and she now believes that if she had not given me those sorts of things that I would not have felt that I was not feminine enough to be a Godly woman. (There were other factors at play as well and she acknowledges those). This something that after seeing what it did to me, she felt it was important enough to very strongly warn about them and the attitude they espouse so that my own daughter would not be exposed to them. Don't get me wrong, purity is very important. But it is not tied to God's love. To be quite frank, based on what I do remember, I am not sure I want those people teaching my daughter about what is and is not pure.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:00 AM   #237
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

VF is pure scariness.
I quote....
""Through the grace of God, she has been learning over the years how to submit her will to her father and channel her interests into avenues that further his vision. She and her sister serve their father through their interests in filmmaking, orchestral harp, history, music theory and composition, theology, studying speech and deportment, the reconstruction of the West, hospitality, classical piano, the persecuted church, and homemaking. A perfect case study of a born rebel turned devoted daughter, she learns more each year about the practical side of helping a father become a great man."

I can't stomach this.
I am not a feminist. I am very conservative. But this.....is.....wrong! Why does a girl have sort of duty to make her father become a great man.....what about the sons.....I see the bible saying that children need to honour and obey their parents. (mother and father). That's about as far as it goes and these men seem like total power trippers.

I can't handle it....it erks me! Plus they don't think woman can be in the military and that makes me
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:16 PM   #238
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

Quote:
she learns more each year about the practical side of helping a father become a great man.
That is MESSED UP! Seriously, the pressure that this would put on a child is unbelievable. Only the father is responsible for making himself a great man!
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:23 PM   #239
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

I started t read this thread but it honestly just has to many pages. I have ordered from Vision Forum and actually love alot of their stuff and would spend way more there if I could. Douglas Phillips is on my facebook and I think many of you are twisting what they say. Some of the stuff that has been written on here about CHRISTIANS and I am not talking about Debi and Michael Pearl are scary. Just saying!
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:38 PM   #240
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Default Re: Talk to me about Vision Forum

You are being very general in your accusations that some here are twisting what Vision Forum says. Could you perhaps please offer some specifics as to what you feel is being twisted? That way your concerns can be better addressed. Also, I encourage you to read the rest of the thread; it's possible that some questions you may have might be already answered in the thread or in some of the links posted.
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  • postbit_display_complete
  • error_fetch
  • pagenav_page
  • pagenav_complete
  • tag_fetchbit_complete
  • forumrules
  • showthread_bookmarkbit
  • navbits
  • navbits_complete
  • showthread_complete