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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing.
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23. No posts harshly dissecting parenting moments of others since we desire to humbly cultivate a heart attitude of grace and not judgment towards other mamas. We all struggle at times as parents and have much to learn, and GCM's focus is to provide tools and information for each of us to parent more effectively. Posts voicing some frustration regarding choices made by others can be okay, but it needs to be within the overall context of seeking understanding or ideas for better responses in the future.

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Old 01-15-2011, 08:42 PM   #31
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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Originally Posted by newday View Post
An interesting thing is how much more sensitive my girls have become since we have started GBD about three years ago, before which we were punitively minded. (They are 9.75 and 8.5 years old right now)
Both girls, at this point in time, will tell us that a tone in our voices or a look on our faces really hurt their feelings. Sometimes they will break down in tears over a seeming "rebuke" which really, compared to the way we used to talk to them, is really mild... It is just that now they are more sensitive to their own place in our home and their value as humans. They actually believe they have the right to speak up when their feelings are hurt and they are fairly confident (only fairly because my dh and I aren't great at GBD, we are still in recovery ) that we won't squash them if they try to voice their discontent, hurt, or disagreement.

I feel it is such a blessing that we found GBD while my girls were young enough yet to recover that sense of "self" which was being minimized by our punitive practices and mindset.
Thank you for that--I believed in theory that GBD created sensitive children, or at least that punitive/harsh responses requires harsher responses in the future.
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Old 01-15-2011, 08:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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Old 01-16-2011, 05:21 AM   #33
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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Originally Posted by momyshaver View Post
maybe this is a spin off thread but how does that work if one is non spanking and the other parent is still punitive? It is causing a lot of frustrating times in my home lately with my strong willed preteen and dh I feel like I am constantly mediating between them and no one is happy
I have taken over the vast majority of discipline when dh is at the point when he is threatening. But at the same time, I don't step in to *most* discipline situations unless I feel it is really wrong-- IOW, I will stop dh if he is threatening to spank b/c a kid won't fall asleep, but I won't if the kid is being truly disobedient. I do have to do some "clean up" afterward and I always talk to dh about it afterward. It isn't an ideal situation.

I know people will disagree with me on this. Thing is, dh & I started our marriage & parenting journey planning to spank a la Dobson style so for me to just change the plan isn't really fair to him. He's coming along and he very rarely threatens now b/c he has seen that positive, gentle, GOYB works.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:01 PM   #34
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

There is a a difference when he is trying go GD too, and spanking isn't his first go-to tool.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:08 PM   #35
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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Originally Posted by Maggirayne View Post
There is a a difference when he is trying go GD too, and spanking isn't his first go-to tool.
most definitely. When I first started being more gentle I *did* nearly all discipline b/c it was a much earlier step in his toolbox. Now I only rarely have to step in.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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Thank you for that--I believed in theory that GBD created sensitive children, or at least that punitive/harsh responses requires harsher responses in the future.
This is an interesting comment to me. DD has always been "sensitive" but most recently in the past year, (she's nearly 2.5) she has become VERY disturbed by crying babies, children, etc. that are not being attended to. I know most of this is due to her personality--she's very much like DH. However, I wonder sometimes that if we didn't GBD her, how she would be. It's very sad when I think of the "what if's" because, I'm fairly certain she would be crushed right about now and have a lot of internal emotional baggage. She becomes very concerned when she hears yelling, or sees injustice in children, she readily hands over her toys for sharing when someone looks sad, and even gave a favorite doll to a disabled girl last summer in a wheelchair, not by our prompting, but because she wanted to.

I explain to her why kids are crying etc, and "keep it real" as much as I can, and I do believe this has helped her become a more sensitive girl in general. I see the benefits to GBD all the time, and DD is only 2.5.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:00 PM   #37
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

Wow, my experience is that strong-willed children sometimes ARE the ones that only need to be looked at (or told, as my dad used to say to me, "I'm so disappointed by your behavior.")

My oldest son was strong-willed (still is) but also generally liked to please us, and when it was pointed out to him that such-and-such was wrong, etc, he really took it to heart.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

Thank you for all of the posts on dealing with "strong willed" kids. I was one and it looks like my daughter is one as well. I don't mind, if she is, but my mom is full of dire warnings about how I will have to battle her every day of our lives. I keep thinking, you and I were at war my entire child hood and you still think I should fight my daughter because...? It is so encouraging to hear real stories that don't involve someone losing.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:21 PM   #39
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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Wow, my experience is that strong-willed children sometimes ARE the ones that only need to be looked at (or told, as my dad used to say to me, "I'm so disappointed by your behavior.")

My oldest son was strong-willed (still is) but also generally liked to please us, and when it was pointed out to him that such-and-such was wrong, etc, he really took it to heart.
Yeah, sometimes with my dd...if I (or her teacher) get adversarial, she can get very stubborn and strong-willed about insisting on doing things her way...but, today for example, I confronted her more gently about something she had done wrong, and she burst into tears. It really wasn't THAT big, but it needed to be addressed, and she was very sensitive to the verbal reprimand of telling her that it was wrong and why. But times when someone has really pushed her into a corner of stubbornness by giving her a punishment of some sort (even as mild as taking away recess), I've seen her fight back against complying in the slightest. I did give her a natural/logical consequence today for the thing we discussed...and she was fine with accepting it because it was more her actions that made the consequence happen instead of ME chosing to spank or taking away an unrelated privilage....strong-willed children have a way of seeing that "YOU are doing this to me," and deciding they'd rather suffer than cave in...but dd is so very sensitive to realizing that she's done something wrong when you gently point out why it's wrong, when you appeal to logic instead of trying to bully her.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:10 AM   #40
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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Old 01-17-2011, 09:13 AM   #41
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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Originally Posted by Quiteria View Post
Yeah, sometimes with my dd...if I (or her teacher) get adversarial, she can get very stubborn and strong-willed about insisting on doing things her way...but, today for example, I confronted her more gently about something she had done wrong, and she burst into tears. It really wasn't THAT big, but it needed to be addressed, and she was very sensitive to the verbal reprimand of telling her that it was wrong and why. But times when someone has really pushed her into a corner of stubbornness by giving her a punishment of some sort (even as mild as taking away recess), I've seen her fight back against complying in the slightest. I did give her a natural/logical consequence today for the thing we discussed...and she was fine with accepting it because it was more her actions that made the consequence happen instead of ME chosing to spank or taking away an unrelated privilage....strong-willed children have a way of seeing that "YOU are doing this to me," and deciding they'd rather suffer than cave in...but dd is so very sensitive to realizing that she's done something wrong when you gently point out why it's wrong, when you appeal to logic instead of trying to bully her.
I find this with my dd too. For example, if she hurts her sister and I start blaming, shaming, telling her to apologize (which I haven't done for a VERY long time, because I learned better), she will yell NO and will.not.apologize no matter what. But all I have to say to her is "Your sister is hurting. What can you do to help her feel better?" and she will apologize and bring her a toy or give her a hug. In fact, the last few months, I haven't even needed to do that. Now the scenario usually goes dd2 coming to me crying and dd1 right behind her saying "Mom I did xyz, but I told her I was sorry," and it's usually an accident, but she will even tell me when it was on purpose.
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:49 PM   #42
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

I'm another one who doesn't like the terms strong-willed and compliant. We see what we're expecting to see. If someone met my DS at the park early in the morning, they'd say he was compliant. If they saw him when he was focused o something and not paying attention to me - he must be strong-willed. Then from that time on, they'll view further behaviour through those lenses - either viewing individual episodes of compliance or refusal as an aberration, depending on the label they've assigned.
I prefer to think of him as a 3.5yo and enjoy the good bits when I get them
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:55 PM   #43
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Reframing that resoluteness has helped a lot! Rather than having it a strong-willed me vs. child paradigm, I have changed it. Our paradigm is that of one dragon-tamer mentoring another dragon-tamer. Instead of labeling the strong will as a bad thing and being in opposition to it. I'm trying to help myself and my daughter identify what the real issue is - and then focus our resolute desires to conquer evil on the true problem.

So, IRL, instead of getting frustrated with DD for making us late for school every morning, and having her dig her heels in on getting things done in a timely manner (which we tried that, and yeah, didn't work), I identified the problem as the Dragon of Being Late. By identifying the problem as something we can fight together, I stopped the tension between ourselves, and invited her in on the problem solving. This allowed her to be able to brainstorm and join in on the side of being on-time, without feeling under attack.

Oh, and when we are able to tame the Dragon of Being Late, according to my daughter we turn into On Time Unicorns, who drive to school on sparkly rainbows.

This is gentle parenting. I still spend time each morning ensuring she gets everything ready on time, but instead of fighting ME, she's fighting the Dragon. I'm not taking the fight away from her, just redirecting it to more productive targets.
That was absolutely incredible and extremely helpful!! I have always thought to myself (after realizing that being punitive was NOT working AT ALL for my Spirited little firstborn), "How can I get her will to work with me instead of against me?" Thank you for sharing this little nugget from your experience!!
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:42 AM   #44
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

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I'm a strong-willed person. I can out-stubborn anyone on the planet.

I have a strong-willed child.

When I am not intentionally parenting her with gentle firmness, I have the ability to dig in my heels and destroy her. Obviously, that's not in her best interest. And I do everything in my power to avoid that dynamic.

Reframing that resoluteness has helped a lot! Rather than having it a strong-willed me vs. child paradigm, I have changed it. Our paradigm is that of one dragon-tamer mentoring another dragon-tamer. Instead of labeling the strong will as a bad thing and being in opposition to it. I'm trying to help myself and my daughter identify what the real issue is - and then focus our resolute desires to conquer evil on the true problem.

So, IRL, instead of getting frustrated with DD for making us late for school every morning, and having her dig her heels in on getting things done in a timely manner (which we tried that, and yeah, didn't work), I identified the problem as the Dragon of Being Late. By identifying the problem as something we can fight together, I stopped the tension between ourselves, and invited her in on the problem solving. This allowed her to be able to brainstorm and join in on the side of being on-time, without feeling under attack.

Oh, and when we are able to tame the Dragon of Being Late, according to my daughter we turn into On Time Unicorns, who drive to school on sparkly rainbows.

This is gentle parenting. I still spend time each morning ensuring she gets everything ready on time, but instead of fighting ME, she's fighting the Dragon. I'm not taking the fight away from her, just redirecting it to more productive targets.
I think I might try that one! Our dc like a French TV programme called Chasseurs de Dragon (dragon hunters), so that might work
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:42 AM   #45
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Default Re: Strong-Willed Children Vs. Gentle Discipline

Loving this discussion. Could somebody go back twenty five years or so and have this talk with my parents?
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  • (1)pagenav
  • (1)pagenav_curpage
  • (3)pagenav_pagelink
  • (15)post_groan_box
  • (1)post_groan_javascript
  • (1)post_groan_navbar_search
  • (15)post_thanks_box
  • (49)post_thanks_box_bit
  • (1)post_thanks_javascript
  • (1)post_thanks_navbar_search
  • (12)post_thanks_postbit_legacy
  • (15)postbit_legacy
  • (14)postbit_onlinestatus
  • (144)postbit_reputation
  • (15)postbit_wrapper
  • (4)showthread_bookmarksite
  • (1)smqre_editor_button
  • (1)spacer_close
  • (1)spacer_open
  • (1)tagbit_wrapper 

Phrase Groups Available:
  • global
  • inlinemod
  • postbit
  • posting
  • reputationlevel
  • showthread
Included Files:
  • ./showthread.php
  • ./global.php
  • ./includes/init.php
  • ./includes/class_core.php
  • ./includes/config.php
  • ./includes/functions.php
  • ./includes/class_hook.php
  • ./includes/functions_notice.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner.php
  • ./mobiquo/include/classTTConnection.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner/head.inc.php
  • ./includes/functions_bigthree.php
  • ./includes/class_postbit.php
  • ./includes/class_bbcode.php
  • ./includes/functions_reputation.php
  • ./includes/adminfunctions_template.php
  • ./includes/functions_misc.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_thanks.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_groan.php 

Hooks Called:
  • init_startup
  • cache_permissions
  • fetch_threadinfo_query
  • fetch_threadinfo
  • fetch_foruminfo
  • style_fetch
  • cache_templates
  • global_start
  • parse_templates
  • fetch_musername
  • notices_check_start
  • global_setup_complete
  • showthread_start
  • template_groups
  • template_safe_functions
  • template_compile
  • showthread_getinfo
  • forumjump
  • showthread_post_start
  • showthread_query_postids
  • showthread_query
  • bbcode_fetch_tags
  • bbcode_create
  • showthread_postbit_create
  • postbit_factory
  • postbit_display_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_end
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_start
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_start
  • post_thanks_function_show_thanks_date_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_end
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_start
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_end
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_start
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_end
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_start
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_end
  • reputation_image
  • postbit_imicons
  • bbcode_parse_start
  • bbcode_parse_complete_precache
  • bbcode_parse_complete
  • postbit_display_complete
  • error_fetch
  • pagenav_page
  • pagenav_complete
  • tag_fetchbit_complete
  • forumrules
  • showthread_bookmarkbit
  • navbits
  • navbits_complete
  • showthread_complete