Crystal: A discussion about "Biblical Parenting"

I have a very good friend who is a great mom. She does spank and she does cio but I really do respect how connected and loving she is. She has said she could never imagine spanking her son at his age (20 months) and it has been 6 months since she has spanked her dd (5) so it is absolutely not a tool she uses often. I gave her your book to read and she said she agreed with 90% of it but 10% made her go, "Huh? What?!"

She marked it with stickys and honestly, knowing how good she is with her kids it's hard for me to know how to answer her questions. She wants to discuss it but I thought it would be good to get your perspective. She had six stickys so I figured we could take it one at a time. This might be a good discussion for others as well, otherwise I would have just pm'd you.

On page 46 you wrote: Too often I hear, "My child is doing______. Is this normal?" The truth is, yes, that is normal for that child. What each child does at any age is normal for that baby at that age. It's what God designed them to be able to do at that point.

My friend said: By her definition of normal, nothing is abnormal. This is dangerous - keeps our expectations of our children low. May prevent appropriate intervention - medical, educational, therapeutic, guidance and teaching.

[ArmsOfLove]

Oh--this will be fun

I see her concern--but in context I am talking about our expectations of our children compared to what other children are doing, as well as the cultural expectations that say a child *should* be doing X by this time. I compare "normal" to "normative". Normative is what everyone is doing; normal is what a child is designed to do that may or may not be compatible with what is normative. So it is normative in our culture to expect a child to sleep through the night at 6 weeks; that is not normal for most children, though it is for some.

Yes, we do need to be on the lookout for things that need intervention or medical/therapy attention. But, even in those cases, what is going on is normal for that child. We are reading a wonderful book that is helping ds understand what it means to be autistic spectrum. Regardless, from a parenting/discipline perspective these things are normal *for him* (and for others with Asperger's). If I try to parent him based on the normative expectations of a child his age I will be frustrated all the time and so will he! But when I accept that he is who he is I can adjust my parenting to meet him where he is and meet his needs.

Does that help? If it just prompts more questions from her go ahead and post them

Yay! I'm so glad you think this will be fun - that's exactly how I was hoping you'd respond.

Second sticky...

I won't write what you wrote because well, we all know how we feel about crying babies.

She wrote: Crying babies - not sure all crying is bad - If you make sure their needs are met, comfort them, you have to keep yourself sane/rested - help child learn self-soothing.

Her next sticky was on the same note (btw, she said she started feeling a bit defensive while reading this section. I think you'll see that come out here ): I let my children learn to self-sooth after I tried reasonable measures (feeding on demand, etc.) to comfort them - I'm sure they're not emotionally scareed/failing to thrive - get real!

[canadiyank]

I think that's a difference of AP coming out there WRT CIO...

Regarding the "normal" thing, too, I've always liked Crystal's "age-appropriate does not mean appropriate." Just b/c something is normal or age-expected doesn't mean we don't address the issue. That's what I think she might be reacting to there..that we'ree using "age-expected/appropriate" as an excuse for behaviour...

[QuiltinGramma]

[cindergretta]

Originally Posted by QuiltinGramma

Yeah, me too!! I am loving this thread....

Bring it on, Crystal. I love the way you explain things.....

[cindergretta]

Oops, one other thing...

Does your friend realize that sometimes when a baby cries, it just needs to be held and comforted? Maybe not a diaper or food, just close contact? My 5th will sometimes cry and we can't soothe her. She will sob on our shoulder. But if we put her down, her cries get more upset, kwim? She *needs* the crying for some reason, but she also needs us to hold her while she does it. Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by cindergretta

Oops, one other thing...

Does your friend realize that sometimes when a baby cries, it just needs to be held and comforted? Maybe not a diaper or food, just close contact? My 5th will sometimes cry and we can't soothe her. She will sob on our shoulder. But if we put her down, her cries get more upset, kwim? She *needs* the crying for some reason, but she also needs us to hold her while she does it. Does that make sense?

Yes, absolutely she would say she knows sometimes a baby simply needs to be held and comforted. I think though that she argue that sometimes a baby really *needs* sleep.

I can argue this one myself tbh, I'm planning to show her this though thread and thought it would be cool to show her different responses from my own.

[SouthPaw]

[Mama Rophe]

I am so interested in this. I think it will help me with my mil.

[Amber]

Everyone else's popcorn looked so good I though I get some too.

[QuiltinGramma]

Hey that's only 3 stickies so far........what are the other 3 things she had questions about?
(mmmm second course)

Okay, third sticky:

On page 53 Crystal wrote: People learn 20% from what is spoken and 80% from what is not spoken. If I tell you I love you while I hit you - what message is louder? If I tell you I love you while I lead you to time-out/isolation - what message is louder? Worse still, what if I spank you while I yell at you for being horrible?

Friend wrote: No time out? Are you kidding? Time-Out is a natural consequence - in my experience it has allowed my children to step back from a situation in which they have lost control of themselves, re-think, make better choices and return. Spanking PLUS yelling is bad!! I wouldn't do it!

There are actually only two more stickys but they are biggies. I want to wait until Crystal has a chance to respond to these.