Gentle Christian Mothers Community
 
Random Quotes from Wise Mamas

~* Please help keep GCM free by using our
Amazon.com affiliate link. Thank you! *~


Go Back   Gentle Christian Mothers Community > Specific Issues > Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public*
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing.
A public forum.
Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:

23. No posts harshly dissecting parenting moments of others since we desire to humbly cultivate a heart attitude of grace and not judgment towards other mamas. We all struggle at times as parents and have much to learn, and GCM's focus is to provide tools and information for each of us to parent more effectively. Posts voicing some frustration regarding choices made by others can be okay, but it needs to be within the overall context of seeking understanding or ideas for better responses in the future.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2005, 08:41 PM   #61
Knitted_in_the_womb
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Quote:
But my earlier point was that she does not say to put up with the abuse, saying that it's somehow the wife's fault anyway; rather, she says to call the authorities and testify.
I don't know...according to Spunky's review (I haven't read the book myself) there is a lot of double-speak in regards to reporting abuse. Michael apparentl writes some portion that talks about how the wife is not to be trying to determine if her husband has overstepped his authority because that would be stepping out of her submissive position. He also talks about suffering in silence being a Godly behavior. And of course there is the issue that they never give actual examples of women reporting abuse to the authorities, but rather women who chose to endure even in very extreme situations.

It's kind of a situation like staging a house. When my husband and I were recently selling our house we brought in a professional house stager (WELL worth the money!). One of the things she told us we needed to change the bedroom we were using as an office back into a bedroom because despite the listing saying the house had 3 bedrooms, if people only saw two rooms used as bedrooms, that is what they would remember. Same with the book...out of one side of their mouths the Pearls may say to report abuse to the police, but then they only show potential buyers examples of women who don't report abuse, so that is what is going to stick with people.

Jenn
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2005, 09:18 PM   #62
Can Dance
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,336
Can Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond reputeCan Dance has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl



I don't know...according to Spunky's review (I haven't read the book myself) there is a lot of double-speak in regards to reporting abuse. Michael apparentl writes some portion that talks about how the wife is not to be trying to determine if her husband has overstepped his authority because that would be stepping out of her submissive position. He also talks about suffering in silence being a Godly behavior. And of course there is the issue that they never give actual examples of women reporting abuse to the authorities, but rather women who chose to endure even in very extreme situations.

[/quote


Yeah, this idea of getting beaten for Jesus doesn't just belong to the Pearls. Elisabeth Elliot is also a proponent of dying for Jesus in the hands of your husband. She backs it up with 1 Peter and submitting to unbelieving husbands.
C
__________________
Mum to MayFlowers:
DD1 4/2004
DD2 13/2006
DS 24/2009
and my Hawaiian Surprise
DS 9/1/11
Can Dance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 06:28 AM   #63
Heidi_Suzanne
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 50
Heidi_Suzanne is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Elizabeth Elliot was the first author I read when I came to Christ in 1992. (Dobson was right behind her ) I continued to listen to her, admire her and follow her advice for the next 10 years. It did our family far more harm than good. She has some wonderful things to say about her and her husband's missionary work. I wish she'd stick to that topic.
Heidi_Suzanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 06:47 AM   #64
CelticJourney
Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34,551
CelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

I guess it is an indicator of what God holds as precious and holy - the parenting relationship and the marrige relationship - that those are what Satan attacks most often. It is astonishing to me how seductive and 'tricky' these people are that so many believe their false teaching.
__________________
Elizabeth

"Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep

Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19
CelticJourney is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CelticJourney For This Useful Post:
Dtswife (06-17-2014)
Old 08-12-2005, 06:57 AM   #65
Katherine
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

I didn't realize Elisabeth Elliot had such extreme views. I read two of her books as a teenager.. even coming from my very conservative background there were some things that struck me as a bit difficult to swallow... but she was a well-respected Christian author in those circles, so I tried really hard to internalize the concepts she was teaching. I will say she had a VERY strong influence on my ideas about womanhood, submission, and gender roles as I came into adulthood. Now I'm wondering if that was a good thing or a bad thing...
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 07:48 AM   #66
hsgbdmama
Deactivated
 
Yeah, it's winter here ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: *Wis*consin
Posts: 11,903
hsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knitted_in_the_womb
Quote:
But my earlier point was that she does not say to put up with the abuse, saying that it's somehow the wife's fault anyway; rather, she says to call the authorities and testify.
I don't know...according to Spunky's review (I haven't read the book myself) there is a lot of double-speak in regards to reporting abuse. Michael apparentl writes some portion that talks about how the wife is not to be trying to determine if her husband has overstepped his authority because that would be stepping out of her submissive position. He also talks about suffering in silence being a Godly behavior.
Okay, I pulled out my book, and MP does say to allow some abuse :

Quote:
God does not step in and divest a father of his authority when he proves to be short tempered and neglects h is children, or when he is excessive in his corporal punishment (emphasis mine), as long as it does not cross the line that would violate the just laws of the land or slip into the category of violence against another human being. (261)
He also uses 1 Peter to justify some abuse:

Quote:
You will surely wonder, "Why is it the will of God for the underling to suffer at the hands of an unjust and perverse authority?" Two reasons are obvious, one of which we have already stated. First, the chain of authority must remain intact, even to the point of allowing some abuse (emphasis mine ). The other reason is introduced in verse 20 -- glory. (263)
I stand corrected. Maybe I subconsciously blocked this stuff out!

And then we have the crown jewel:

Quote:
If you are not at least moderately versed in Scripture and in the will and ways of God, this doctrine of suffering abuse in silence for the glory of God will amaze you. ... This is the normal Christian life that we are advocating. ... Suffering for him brings joy unspeakable and full of glory (1 Peter 1:8). ... You must be a worshipper of God and enjoy his presence if you are going to suffer for his sake and it result in great glory. (265)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Knitted_in_the_womb
And of course there is the issue that they never give actual examples of women reporting abuse to the authorities, but rather women who chose to endure even in very extreme situations.
Acutally there are. Following this section (starting on p. 266), the first example is a "sodomite predator" where the Pearls did tell her to call the authorities and she did, as the abuser is in prison (albeit still married to the guy). There is another one on p. 267 where the husband commanded the wife to help with robbery -- again, the Pearls did tell her to turn him in and she did (but is remaining married to him).

However, one other example on p. 269, where the husband tells his wife to stop attending church, the Pearls say stop attending. I'm going to make a guess and say that Michael Pearl never ordered Debi to stop attending church, so they really have no point of reference here. I had been asked to stop attending church and I said no, and I have been blessed for standing my ground. We have been commanded to worship Him, so I feel I would be violating His word by not worshipping.
hsgbdmama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 08:21 AM   #67
CelticJourney
Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34,551
CelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

I have yet to see any pearls of wisdom come out of the toxic waste of NGJ/Pearls. Borrowed nuggets, maybe, nothing of their own.
__________________
Elizabeth

"Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep

Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19
CelticJourney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 08:37 AM   #68
Heidi_Suzanne
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 50
Heidi_Suzanne is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcollins
I have yet to see any pearls of wisdom come out of the toxic waste of NGJ/Pearls. Borrowed nuggets, maybe, nothing of their own.
well said. ita.
Heidi_Suzanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2005, 05:43 PM   #69
Knitted_in_the_womb
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodi B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knitted_in_the_womb
And of course there is the issue that they never give actual examples of women reporting abuse to the authorities, but rather women who chose to endure even in very extreme situations.
Acutally there are. Following this section (starting on p. 266), the first example is a "sodomite predator" where the Pearls did tell her to call the authorities and she did, as the abuser is in prison (albeit still married to the guy). There is another one on p. 267 where the husband commanded the wife to help with robbery -- again, the Pearls did tell her to turn him in and she did (but is remaining married to him).
Not to be picky...but...neither of those are examples of classic physical abuse. Obviously non-consensual sodomy is a form of physical abuse...but see it can be pointed out as something to report because of course most Christians respond to it in a "eeewwww....how disgusting!" manner. There is just no way to make enduring sodomy seem "godly." And robbery...not physical abuse.

Jenn
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 12:10 PM   #70
ArmsOfLove
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 79,607
ArmsOfLove has disabled reputation
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Can anyone explain what *they* mean by a sodomite predator? Is that a sexual abuser of boys or men? It had to be something to report him to the police for, but that is such a strange wording
ArmsOfLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 12:16 PM   #71
hsgbdmama
Deactivated
 
Yeah, it's winter here ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: *Wis*consin
Posts: 11,903
hsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove
Can anyone explain what *they* mean by a sodomite predator? Is that a sexual abuser of boys or men? It had to be something to report him to the police for, but that is such a strange wording
The situation was a woman's second husband taking her tween son to places (like waysides) and forcing the boy to perform acts with him and other men.
hsgbdmama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 12:18 PM   #72
ArmsOfLove
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 79,607
ArmsOfLove has disabled reputation
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

and she was advised to stay married to him??? That is terrible!
ArmsOfLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 02:10 PM   #73
hsgbdmama
Deactivated
 
Yeah, it's winter here ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: *Wis*consin
Posts: 11,903
hsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond reputehsgbdmama has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove
and she was advised to stay married to him??? That is terrible!
Yes. Their advice is to not only visit sickos like this in prison, but to also have the children he abused visit him in prison once a month ... according to "research" she/they have read (which again she provides no sources to), the healing process begins when the children visit their abuser.
hsgbdmama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 03:00 PM   #74
ArmsOfLove
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 79,607
ArmsOfLove has disabled reputation
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

that is so unboundaried and sick that I don't even know what to say
ArmsOfLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 03:39 PM   #75
Tulip_Plus_3
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl

That's sick & revolting.

You know what? I was molested repeatedly by my grandfather, as were several of my sisters. Sounds to me like a woman following the advice to stay with a ' pervert who molested her own children is a woman setting her grandchildren up to be molested, too. What a wonderful legacy to pass on to future generations, huh?

Christ is perfect. Let Him forgive & forget. Me? Sorry, I'm a little too imperfectly human for that. I would be tempted to pull a Lorena Bobbit, if you ask me.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:30 PM.


A variety of opinions and ideas are shared on GCM. Personal experiences, suggestions, and tips found here are in no way intended to substitute for medical counsel from a healthcare professional. Always use your own good judgement and seek professional advice when in doubt about a health concern.

Amazon.com affiliate link

Copyright 1997-2017 by Gentle Christian Mothers™
An alternative-minded, evangelical Christian community supporting attachment parenting and natural living.

Do not post content elsewhere.
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/

Some smilies created and copyrighted by Mazeguy.
Some smilies and avatars created and copyrighted by flowermama and children -- do not use elsewhere.

Soli Deo Gloria
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. ~ Romans 16:27 (KJV)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

X vBulletin 3.8.3 Debug Information
  • Page Generation 0.11164 seconds
  • Memory Usage 7,960KB
  • Queries Executed 14 (?)
More Information
Template Usage:
  • (1)SHOWTHREAD
  • (1)ad_footer_end
  • (1)ad_footer_start
  • (1)ad_header_end
  • (1)ad_header_logo
  • (1)ad_navbar_below
  • (1)ad_showthread_beforeqr
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_sig
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_start
  • (12)bbcode_quote
  • (1)cyb_flashimagebanners
  • (1)footer
  • (1)forumjump
  • (1)forumrules
  • (1)gobutton
  • (1)header
  • (1)headinclude
  • (1)navbar
  • (3)navbar_link
  • (60)option
  • (1)pagenav
  • (1)pagenav_curpage
  • (5)pagenav_pagelink
  • (15)post_groan_box
  • (1)post_groan_javascript
  • (1)post_groan_navbar_search
  • (15)post_thanks_box
  • (1)post_thanks_box_bit
  • (1)post_thanks_javascript
  • (1)post_thanks_navbar_search
  • (1)post_thanks_postbit_legacy
  • (15)postbit_legacy
  • (11)postbit_onlinestatus
  • (71)postbit_reputation
  • (15)postbit_wrapper
  • (4)showthread_bookmarksite
  • (1)smqre_editor_button
  • (1)spacer_close
  • (1)spacer_open
  • (1)tagbit_wrapper 

Phrase Groups Available:
  • global
  • inlinemod
  • postbit
  • posting
  • reputationlevel
  • showthread
Included Files:
  • ./showthread.php
  • ./global.php
  • ./includes/init.php
  • ./includes/class_core.php
  • ./includes/config.php
  • ./includes/functions.php
  • ./includes/class_hook.php
  • ./includes/functions_notice.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner.php
  • ./mobiquo/include/classTTConnection.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner/head.inc.php
  • ./includes/functions_bigthree.php
  • ./includes/class_postbit.php
  • ./includes/class_bbcode.php
  • ./includes/functions_reputation.php
  • ./includes/adminfunctions_template.php
  • ./includes/functions_misc.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_thanks.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_groan.php 

Hooks Called:
  • init_startup
  • cache_permissions
  • fetch_threadinfo_query
  • fetch_threadinfo
  • fetch_foruminfo
  • style_fetch
  • cache_templates
  • global_start
  • parse_templates
  • fetch_musername
  • notices_check_start
  • global_setup_complete
  • showthread_start
  • template_groups
  • template_safe_functions
  • template_compile
  • showthread_getinfo
  • forumjump
  • showthread_post_start
  • showthread_query_postids
  • showthread_query
  • bbcode_fetch_tags
  • bbcode_create
  • showthread_postbit_create
  • postbit_factory
  • postbit_display_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_end
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_start
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_end
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_start
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_end
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_start
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_end
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_start
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_end
  • bbcode_parse_start
  • bbcode_parse_complete_precache
  • bbcode_parse_complete
  • postbit_display_complete
  • error_fetch
  • reputation_image
  • postbit_imicons
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_start
  • post_thanks_function_show_thanks_date_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_end
  • pagenav_page
  • pagenav_complete
  • tag_fetchbit_complete
  • forumrules
  • showthread_bookmarkbit
  • navbits
  • navbits_complete
  • showthread_complete