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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing. A public forum. Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:
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01-16-2012, 09:54 AM | #1 |
Rosebud
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 104
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Families where grace is in place & SACH
I Just read a blog where the woman says her life has been changed by several parenting books. She named sheparding a child's heart (and welchel's creative correction) AND families where grace is in place.
How can you be changed by both ends of the spectrum? Legalism AND grace? Is it not one or the other? Pondering this.
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mom to 3 blessings "Our children are the living messages we send to a time we will not see." - John W. Whitehead Last edited by GraceFirst; 01-16-2012 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Mispelling |
01-16-2012, 10:16 AM | #2 |
Climbing Rose
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,361
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
It is so hard to understand how people can "get it" without actually getting it
Families Where Grace Is in Place is not a "how to" book- it's a frame of mind. SACH I've heard here (but haven't personally read) has some great connection stuff before it throws in all the garbage of the connection coming through spanking . So my guess is the person is taking the good from Families Where Grace is in Place and then thinking they are implementing it ala SACH. Sad, sad, sad
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Naomi, INFJ, married to my carpenter DH, and mama to DC (19), DD (16), DS (13), DD (9), and DD (7). Plus three kitties, Mango, Mochi, and Lola. |
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01-16-2012, 10:19 AM | #3 |
Rose Garden
The only way we'll last forever is broken together
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Georgia
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
Ted Tripp is an interesting character, because he really does seem to have a good grasp on grace, IF he could get out of his head that spanking is a biblical command.
He seems to know there's a disconnect too, because on his videos he says repeatedly that he tells his kids he doesn't understand the connection between the heart and the rear end, but God is the one that designed it that way, so who is he to question? Ugh... I really think he would be GBD if he could get that idea out of his head.
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Rachel (INFJ - DYT 2)
wife to my DH (INTJ) since 2008 Mama to C 6 y/o Mama to A 20 months a little one who will only ever know heaven 8/1/13 |
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01-16-2012, 10:20 AM | #4 |
Deactivated
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 38,127
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
A good bit of SACH does focus on relationship and the underlying reasons for behavior. Likewise, Creative Correction seems to look for alternative discipline solutions that don't cause as much pain.
However, until someone's mindset is changed into understanding what grace is and how it works, they can only move toward less punitive instead of truly graceful. That's why this is a spiritual journey - it's not about not spanking, but having our minds and lives transformed by the grace of God. |
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01-16-2012, 10:32 AM | #5 | |
Rose Trellis
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
Quote:
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01-16-2012, 10:36 AM | #6 | |
Rose Garden
The Gospel is for Christians, too :).
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
Quote:
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01-16-2012, 10:40 AM | #7 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
I've heard a SACH-follower describe it as grace-based and he described his ways as choosing when to apply grace.
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DS (12), DD (10), DD2 (7) And my kids were going to behave perfectly all the time and if they didn't, they'd be Dobsoned, but I was going to Dobson so perfectly that they'd know not to slip up but once or twice because I was going to be sooooooo consistent and awesome and wise. |
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01-16-2012, 10:41 AM | #8 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
People who spank don't see spanking as grace-less. They actually see it as God's grace to the child that they have parents who love them enough to raise them according to God's standards and design.
Also, like others have said, there really is some good stuff in SACH. If all a Christian has ever seen, been taught, and believed is that spanking is what the Bible commands, then that person will LOVE SACH and will not at all see it in conflict with FWGIIP. This comes from many conversations with dear Christian friends who spank and love SACH.
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Stacy here!
Enjoying my Complementarian marriage to Mr. Hutch since May 20, 2006 Blessed Mama of Miss H (16), Mr Big J (15), Miss T (14), Mr Little J (11), & Mr A (7) Missing three I will meet in Heaven (Feb 2012), (Apr 2016) & (Jun 2020) "Exercise gives you endorphins. Endorphins make you happy. Happy people don't shoot their husbands, they just don't." -Legally Blonde |
01-16-2012, 11:11 AM | #9 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,639
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
Also, lots of people can read books with two conflicting approaches and try to find their own path by picking and choosing what works for them. I did that with Dr. Sears The Baby Book and Goodnight, Sleep Tight. Both advocated gentle, responsive nighttime parenting. One was pro-cosleeping and the other was pro-crib. I was able to read them both and create a middle way, a method that got OUR family the most sleep without doing CIO.
I could see doing that with discipline books as well.
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01-16-2012, 11:16 AM | #10 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
That makes sense. I grew up around the idea that spanking was just how things are. I can see how a book that talks as much about grace as is possible without quite breaking past the spanking barrier would seem to be unquestionably as much of a graceful approach as can exist since you wouldn't even be seeing spanking as a problem.
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DS (12), DD (10), DD2 (7) And my kids were going to behave perfectly all the time and if they didn't, they'd be Dobsoned, but I was going to Dobson so perfectly that they'd know not to slip up but once or twice because I was going to be sooooooo consistent and awesome and wise. |
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01-16-2012, 07:49 PM | #11 |
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34,551
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
For many it's the mommy filter. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had over the years with Ezzo supporters and when you ask them to defend x statement, they claim he never said/wrote that. When you provide page numbers they are often shocked. THAT is one of the reasons when we discuss Ezzo and his crew here in Unprepared, we talk about what they wrote/said, not what anyone did with the information.
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Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 |
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01-16-2012, 10:36 PM | #12 |
Rose Bouquet
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Abashiri, Japan
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
This is probably not a good example, but I like many different types of music. Worship: Hillsong, Steven Curtis Chapman, etc. all the way to Dixie Chicks. If you line the music up side by side they may not seem to relate and even be contradicting, but they bring something different to me and I take certain things away from each one and find enjoyment.
I think each is on the journey and the Lord is guiding us and speaking to each of us to lead us closer to Him in all parts of our life. I don't really see these books at opposite ends and polar opposites, just different steps on the way.
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Linda, wife for 24 years to dh, mom to ds-21, dd-19, ds-16, ds-13, ds-10, ds-7, and ds 6 |
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01-17-2012, 06:01 AM | #13 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
That explains a lot. I have wondered how people can rave about How to Really Love Your Child and Love Languages and still think spanking is a good tool.
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01-17-2012, 07:43 AM | #14 | |
Administrator
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
Quote:
So while they may not be polar opposites, they stand on different banks of a very big divide between punitive parenting and grace based parenting. Are the children the enemy or are they fellow Christians on a journey that I have been blessed to guide them on?
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Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 |
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01-17-2012, 06:26 PM | #15 | |
Rose Bouquet
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Abashiri, Japan
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Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
Quote:
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Linda, wife for 24 years to dh, mom to ds-21, dd-19, ds-16, ds-13, ds-10, ds-7, and ds 6 |
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