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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing. A public forum. Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:
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02-22-2017, 01:18 PM | #16 | |||
Rose Garden
The Gospel is for Christians, too :).
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,911
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Re: Need Sheepherding a Child's Heart rebuttals ASAP!
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I know that my tradition (Lutheran) is more likely to fall into antinomianism and Gospel reductionism than other Christian traditions - our beliefs and practices are currently weak in those areas for a lot of reasons, and so those are some of our "besetting sins", our characteristic heresies. But punitive parenting hasn't really made inroads into our congregations - the hard-core punitive parenting stuff contradicts our core theology in ways that pastors notice and reject. But other nasty things slide under the radar because of their surface similarity with our theology, or how they reject the same things we reject - and a *lot* of our churches are infiltrated with them . Other traditions are going to have different core emphases, and punitive parenting is similar enough to some traditions' core theology that it can make serious inroads in those churches. Since you are seeing it everywhere you go, it sounds like your tradition might be one of those. Fighting your tradition's besetting sins, fighting your tradition's characteristic heresies - it's absolutely hard work . It's a lot easier to fight your tradition's characteristic *outside* enemies - that involves the (kinda fun ) work of pointing out other people's blind spots; it's a lot harder to learn to see your *own* blind spots. But it's *necessary* work - learning to better see other people's blind spots on its own can be too much like pointing out the speck in your brother's eye; learning to see your own is removing the plank from your own eye. Two things that have helped me: *Reading old books, seeing how my tradition fought off these heresies in the past, as well as getting a fresh perspective on our beliefs, one free of our current blinders. As C.S. Lewis said, on reading old books: Quote:
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~ forty-two ~
Possessor of The Answer to Everything and Solver of (Somebody Else's) Problems INTJ: introverted iNtuition with extraverted Thinking DYT 4/2: connecting intellectually and emotionally Enneagram 5w4: a need to perceive and to feel special Wife to my pastor dh (INTP) since 2003 Mother to: dd13, 'R' dd10.5, 'A' ds8, 'J' and two in heaven: miscarried 10/29/04 and 01/01/05 Blog: Lutherama What we want is just one thing, not the thing. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to forty-two For This Useful Post: | daina (02-22-2017) |
02-22-2017, 02:39 PM | #17 |
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34,561
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Re: Need Sheepherding a Child's Heart rebuttals ASAP!
I might agree with you were it not for the fact that Pearl's stuff was recommended in my circles by the deeply SBC mom and the Russian Orthodox priest's wife. I think there is a sin in chosing to use power in the wrong way (but maybe that's because I'm reading a book about how Christians chose to use power in good ways and evil ways right now)
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Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 |
The Following User Says Thank You to CelticJourney For This Useful Post: | daina (02-22-2017) |
02-22-2017, 03:25 PM | #18 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,922
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Re: Need Sheepherding a Child's Heart rebuttals ASAP!
FWIW, the SACH followers I know tend towards the non-denominational churches that seem to have come from the Acts 21 Network or are similar in lots of ways. They are people who highly value relationships, clear understandings of authority and responsibility, like ESV translation Bibles. OR they are Southern Baptists.
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03-04-2017, 08:55 AM | #19 | |
Rose Trellis
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,065
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Re: Need Sheepherding a Child's Heart rebuttals ASAP!
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And even Chuck Swindoll has written a really horrible book about child upringing. You and Your Child, IIRC. Isn't he a baptist of some kind? Or Evangelical? Both books were used at the church we were attending when we were young parents. It was a Full Gospel Church on The Netherlands! It was a relief when our "Pastor" introduced the video courses and books of James Dobson. Can you believe it, Dobson a relief? |
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03-04-2017, 01:07 PM | #20 | |
Rose Garden
The Gospel is for Christians, too :).
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,911
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Re: Need Sheepherding a Child's Heart rebuttals ASAP!
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I do agree that punitive parenting can infiltrate most any denomination (I've seen a parish in my denomination doing Ezzo, for goodness sake!, and certainly mainstream punitive assumptions can be widely present), and I do think that in addition to particular traditions being more susceptible to some heresies than others, sometimes *all* the traditions in a particular time/place are susceptible to heresies that are prevalent in the culture around them (e.g. Western churches and secularization). And I'm very sorry you were so badly affected by Christenson . But Christenson himself is an outlier as far as the Lutheran tradition goes. He consciously and on purpose borrowed heavily from outside traditions (charismatic) that many fellow Lutherans believed were incompatible with our core theology (he was the head of the Lutheran Renewal movement, which sought to bring charismatic beliefs and practices into the Lutheran church). He is quoted more in charismatic sources than in Lutheran ones. His book was published by a non-Lutheran publisher and the preface was written by a Pentecostal pastor. It probably could not have passed doctrinal review. And you were taught the book in a charismatic congregation, not a Lutheran one. He's not in any way, shape, or form part of the Lutheran mainstream. And that was my point wrt the person I was responding to: fighting off heresies that are basically foreign to the mainstream of your tradition is an entirely different thing from fighting off heresies that have become *part* of the mainstream of your tradition. (Although it is very true that what starts out as a fringe-y infiltrator that's foreign to your core theology can, if left unchecked, become stronger and warp and displace your previous core theology and become a central part of your new core theology . A tradition's core theology is *not* static but is being constantly formed and reformed. It takes CONSTANT VIGILANCE to keep your core theology from being pulled away from the Bible and the broad historic orthodox mainstream.) Informal punitive assumptions may be part of the mainstream in most traditions, but formal theological justifications for spanking *aren't*. And that's what the person I was responding to was facing. And it's a lot easier to persuade people that a fringe-y foreign infiltrator is in fact a foreign infiltrator that needs to be rejected, than to persuade people than a well-entrenched and no longer fringe-y or foreign-feeling infiltrator is in fact a foreign infiltrator that needs to be rejected. But I do agree that traditions aren't static, and core theologies change, and churches and traditions can become susceptible to problems that they used to be inoculated against - usually by changing and moving away from the beliefs and practices that provided the inoculation.
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~ forty-two ~
Possessor of The Answer to Everything and Solver of (Somebody Else's) Problems INTJ: introverted iNtuition with extraverted Thinking DYT 4/2: connecting intellectually and emotionally Enneagram 5w4: a need to perceive and to feel special Wife to my pastor dh (INTP) since 2003 Mother to: dd13, 'R' dd10.5, 'A' ds8, 'J' and two in heaven: miscarried 10/29/04 and 01/01/05 Blog: Lutherama What we want is just one thing, not the thing. Last edited by forty-two; 03-04-2017 at 02:00 PM. |
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03-04-2017, 11:12 PM | #21 | |
Rose Garden
Why climb a mountain? Because it's there!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Selkirk Mountains
Posts: 52,860
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Re: Need Sheepherding a Child's Heart rebuttals ASAP!
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I never heard of any of these books or parenting methods until I came to GCM. It is largely regional as well as denominational. I grew up in the north (Wisconsin) and in suburban culture there, spanking is considered a rather ignorant way to try and discipline children. If you threaten a child with a spanking in public, you'll get dirty looks. It's in the same boat as smoking. "Are you really still doing that, given ask the knowledge about how harmful itv is? Come on, grow up." Growing up 90% of the people I knew were Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Jewish, or Episcopalian. I never met a Baptist person until I was in my 30s and moved to Tennessee. That was a huge culture shock. People openly spank their kids at a park in the suburbs! I was really shocked. |
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