I feel like I'm not DOing anything!

[Peridot]

I feel like I'm still being punitive. Am I expecting too much of myself? It's been less than a year since I started our gentle journey.

Most of the time, I still feel like I need to DO 'something' about whatever has happened. Especially where hurt and ruin are involved. It took all I had yesterday not to spank Maximus because in the space of 10 minutes, he crushed FIL's nice hat (it was OK) and tore up a peice of paper that Popop had written lyrics and banjo chords on. I KNOW they felt there was no discipline happening in those moments, because there was no physical punishment.

I know it's a feeling of needing to 'make a point' or 'make him understand' or even to take retribution for whatever happened. Say he hurts someone, how do I know he understands that what he did was not Ok? What do I do when he destroys someone's property? Say he had actually punched a hole in Popop's hat instead of just bending the crown in?

And he wrote on the wall over Christmas at my grandmother's house. I know WHY he did it. He just wanted to. He didn't think about what would happen or whether or not it would come off, or anything, he just wanted to write! I took him over, and we sat on the floor with him in my lap in front of what he wrote, and I explained as simply as I could that walls were not for writing on, and that it would take a lot of work to take the marks off. Then I put the marker away. I was able to scrub off the marker. Later, he did it at our house, furtively this time. I reminded him that walls were not for writing, asked him where we do write, (at the table, on paper). He watched me scrub and scrub this time, so he saw the effort involved and gave me lots of chances to repeat myself about why we don't write on walls. When I told Gram about it, she said, 'What did you DO about it?'. I told her I took the marker off the wall. She said, 'No, I mean what was done to the BOY!'. I said, 'What do you mean? I put his writing stuff up somewhere. Now he must ask for it if he wants to color, and he has to sit at the table and be supervised.'

There are lots of other times that I can't see any action to take. So when he has a very hard weekend, like he did this weekend, I don't know how to help him. I WANT to. He had a hard time with compliance, to say nothing of choosing to obey. At church, we had decided to just keep im close, because it seemed that if DH and I tag-teamed him this morning, he would comply easily. So yesterday and today he felt out of control. I get that.

I just feel like I don't know how to do this GBD thing.

[Rabbit]

I think you're just leaving out the making of amends. It's his job to help scrub off the marker, and his job to help fix the hat, and his job to help smooth out the banjo paper, and when he can't help, he can make a little gift to offer his upset grandparent.

[Peridot]

I also wanted to say, that these are kid things. Mistaken behavior. I understand that kids will do those types of things, and that if I leave a permanent marker out where a 3.5 can get it, that's my own silly fault! What I don't know how to handle is him talking really loudly over me when he doesn't want to hear what I say, or blowing raspberries for the same reason.

I don't know how to handle or deal with the conceptual things. Resistance to getting dressed or getting in the car, or carseat. Because these things happen all the time, I have run out of neat tricks to use to get compliance. I had to PUT him in his carseat.

It goes like this, "Mommy put me in!" (starts fighting, hitting our hands, whatever)
"What's wrong?"
"I need Daddy to do it!"

Once is OK. But suddenly its 'no, Daddy!' 'No Mommy!' back and forth forever if we'd let him. Now its 'I have to go potty!' (he just went), 'I forgot to say goodbye!', etc. So when one of us just puts him in, its hysterics. I feel guilty for not being able to get him in the carseat calmly, and guilty for letting him horse me around trying to find a way to do it peacefully.

OK, that's it.
What am I doing wrong?

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Rabbit

I think you're just leaving out the making of amends. It's his job to help scrub off the marker, and his job to help fix the hat, and his job to help smooth out the banjo paper, and when he can't help, he can make a little gift to offer his upset grandparent.

Ok. We do try to help him make amends. He clams up. I know he's sorry, and embarrased, but I can't get him to SAY it. He hides.

How do you get a child to clean/fix stuff? Is it OK to sit behind him and do it hand over hand? or is that too forceful?

I should say that he has some sensory issues so I do not think he would have been able to touch the Magic Eraser.

[Maggirayne]

Yes, to what Natalie said. Also, with little no impulse control and the inability to forsee consequences, that punishing will not *help* him remember it will just hurt.

You are growing and learning. It is so hard moving out of a punitive mindset and with expectations of others watching.

[Rabbit]

At his little age, the effectiveness of his effort isn't the real point, just the habit of fixing what we mess up. So you can use the magic eraser, and he can use a damp wash cloth. When he really can't fix it for fear he'll make it worse (like when handling something delicate), then he can do some job associated, like fetching or carrying tools, etc.

It can be intimidating to be put on the spot, particularly if the grandparent is irate or foreboding. Making a little card is an easier way. A sweet drawing (or colorful scribble) goes a long ways.

[MarynMunchkins]

Your job is to teach the behavior and manage your behavior. It's not your job to make it happen quietly or happily - it's your job to make it happen. Who cares if he cries and you can't please him? That's not your job. Certainly, playful parent first and work with your child - and when you have those moments where it doesn't work, make it happen and manage your own emotions about the screaming banshee in the backseat.

I have no issues putting my hand over a child's hand to make it happen as long as *I* can stay calm while doing it. If I get angry or forceful, I take a break because the lesson isn't worth learning if I'm being mean.

Plus, he's 3.5. At some point, no matter HOW you parent, someone will think you have an out of control child with negligent parents. It's honestly part of the age.

[Rabbit]

I can't ever do hand over hand without escalating and making my head explode, so it can't be a tool in my toolbox. We get on okay without it.

[Peridot]

I do ok with it. It feels like helping to me. DH on the other hand.... no, that wouldn't work.

MarynMunchkins- Thank you! I needed to hear that.


He is a feisty kid. He's a lot like me. And I wonder what exactly my mother had to do to me to get me to the point where I was afraid to do anything w/o her express approval.

I want him to eventually be in control of his feistiness. I know I can't teach him that by controlling him.

I guess I just need permission to just get the job done sometimes.

Originally Posted by Rabbit

I think you're just leaving out the making of amends. It's his job to help scrub off the marker, and his job to help fix the hat, and his job to help smooth out the banjo paper, and when he can't help, he can make a little gift to offer his upset grandparent.

I have to concur with this. Even though our boy is only 23 months right now - he understands when he needs to make amends for something he did that was inappropriate, and help me correct the issue. An example is he tends to get these wilds haired ideas that since he cannot write on the walls - that other pieces of furniture (including the TV screen) is a feasible option to utilize as a part of his art easel with crayon (also the refrigerator). Now he leaves the walls alone, and the tables alone (except his play table - that is game for anything for him), but he proceeds to test his boundaries with these other areas - and every time I take him gentle by the hand (by this time he already has "the face"), and we walk to the place where we need to clean it up. I explain it to him that this *too* is not a place to draw on, and then I get a magic eraser and I explain to him then *we* are going to clean this mess up. I place his hand on the sponge and help him wipe off his drawing marks. Not once has he made such a fuss that I cannot work with him, because when I communicate with him - he really does understand. After he helps me clean it off, he never again touches is with crayon or any other marking device.

It is a slow process, and especially for me too considering I too get very riled up inside and feel impulses to resort to how my family resorted to disciplining me - but then I remind myself of the decision I made between me and my husband, and with God. We both vowed to God to be open and willing vessels to allow Him into our lives so we can break this generational curse in both of our families. They do not understand it, and they think he will become spoiled, but if he is being guided to understand his actions sometimes are not appropriate, and need to be corrected, in a manner that is communicative (not forceful) it gives him the ability to understand, "Hey, I didn't do good this time. So I want to help Mommy (or Daddy) make this right." In time, he will transfer that into, "Hey, I didn't do good this time. So I want to make amends to make certain this doesn't happen again."

Just remember - baby steps. Even as parents, we are still children; especially if we are not accustomed to these *new* (to us) techniques.

[Peridot]

Marni- I have to tell you that at age 2, Maximus was very willing and interested in the process. It's only since around 3 that he has begun to 'question' whether I can actually enforce what I have said are the rules.

[Treenahurricane]

I have done hand over hand if I am calm with the situation for cleaning things up. If it can't be completely resolved by the child, they still have to put in effort in fixing it, even if it means I complete it.

I try to make the consequence make sense when possible, and something that will teach them something related to it all. When our kids slam the doors, they are then stopped and required to open and close the door correctly 10 times. If they make a mess at the table, they have to help mommy wipe it up. If they color on the wall, they have to scrub the wall.

[cornflower]

No advice. Just a (((hug))) and a testimony that 3.5yo is really so hard. So, even if today it feels like nothing you are doing "works" it may just be because of the season. It doesn't mean it really isn't working. (DH and I thought we'd "ruined" DD1 at that age.)

[mountainash]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

I can't ever do hand over hand without escalating and making my head explode, so it can't be a tool in my toolbox. We get on okay without it.

Oh man! It is so nice to know I'm not the only one!!!

Benji used to refuse to help pick up toys. I would try taking his hand and turning him into my little puppet, but he hated that and I didn't find it helpful either. Eventually I told him, "if you can't take responsiblity for your toys by putting them away, then you're showing me that you're not ready to have all these toys. I will pick them up, but then I am keeping them." His response to that was pretty meh, whatever until he wanted those toys to play with again.

[mokamoto]

Originally Posted by Maggirayne

Yes, to what Natalie said. Also, with little no impulse control and the inability to forsee consequences, that punishing will not *help* him remember it will just hurt.

You are growing and learning. It is so hard moving out of a punitive mindset and with expectations of others watching.

Perfectly said! I'm right there with you, although less as days go by. Hang in there!

[FebFaith]

Wow, I'm learning from this thread. Thanks for the question.