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Old 01-26-2010, 08:13 AM   #76
filmgirl2911
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Default Re: The Five Steps

aaronsrib and books with tea - you might want to post your questions directly into the Gentle Discipline forum because this thread is a bit old, so I'm not sure how many people will see your questions

You'll probably get more responses if you post your question as a thread in that forum
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:26 PM   #77
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Default Re: The Five Steps

The question that comes up for me is when it comes to helping, like cleaning up, for example. How do you not end up doing it all? There have been a number of times helping has become "Mama do it while the kids sit there slacking and Mama gets mad at getting taken advantage of." Help!
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:21 PM   #78
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Default Re: The Five Steps

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamajane View Post
The question that comes up for me is when it comes to helping, like cleaning up, for example. How do you not end up doing it all? There have been a number of times helping has become "Mama do it while the kids sit there slacking and Mama gets mad at getting taken advantage of." Help!
when children are young that is part of life beyond the times when handing them a towel and encouraging them to wipe up is viewed as fun.

As children get older (5 is a turning point in this ime) it's time to insist they do it. For most typically developing children this isn't a big deal. In fact, most children WANT to be social. I make sure to keep the idea that being able to do it without help is evidence you are growing up.

Once a child knows that resistance is futile they are going to do it. And I do always do it for them as they age. Toddlers, sure. But not beyond that. I might do it WITH them--put this in that bucket, hand that over here so I can put it up, etc. Eventually, for cleaning their room for example, I can give them one step and then they check back in with me and I give them the next, etc. Eventually they don't need to come ask the steps and I might pop in at the end and point out the few things that still need doing and give a

Any children that reaches 5 and still needs help frequently and for average things needs, imo, to be evaluated for special needs or have their diet considered.

ETA: I also encourage older children, or even same aged siblings, to help one another. Once we have 5 children there is no reason for mommy to be doing everything Often we don't ask children to do nearly as much as they are capable of.
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Old 03-07-2010, 05:48 PM   #79
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Default Re: The Five Steps

DS is 2 3/4yo. He is usually compliant....my biggest gripe is that he whines when asked to do something. He's had maybe 2 or 3 full-blown tantrums. The latest was in Cracker Barrel the other day. (Side note: How unfair that they make us walk right past the candy to get to the tables! UGH!!)

He was carrying around a dinosaur toy that I didn't want to buy. Before we looked at toys I let him know that we wouldn't be buying any that day. So when he showed me the dino toy, we ooh'd and ahh'd over it. Talked about how it would be fun and maybe we can get it someday, but 'remember we're not buying today....'.

I asked him to put it back. I asked him again. I took it from him and returned it. He started crying. Dad grabbed his hand and headed for the door. DS fell to the ground, screaming. Dad picked him up and carried him to the car. DS refused to let Dad put him in the car seat, so I told Dad to just leave him alone for a minute. DS stood there crying and screaming like I've never seen him do before. It was a little scary for me to see him that intense. We sat for a minute and I went to put him in his seat. He still struggled, but I just kept speaking to him quietly...things like, "Yes, I know. You're so so sad. You wanted that dinosaur toy. Remember, Mom told you we weren't buying toys today. We'll come back sometime and look at it again."

He cried for about 10 minutes on the way home. (Until we passed the school district's parking lot full of busses...cuz that's just super cool!)

So here's my question in regards to the 5 steps: How close was I? Should I have bear hugged him in the store? I could see myself doing the bear hug and dealing with the problem there. I was pretty calm. Other times I might be aggravated and would definately flee as quickly as possible...but that day I was ok.

Also: What do I do when at step 5, he doesn't get violent or tantrumy...but rather runs and hides behind the chair? (Such as when I ask him to clean up or put shoes on?)

Please critique! What could I have done differently/better?

Thanks so much!
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:06 PM   #80
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Default Re: The Five Steps

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamajane View Post
The question that comes up for me is when it comes to helping, like cleaning up, for example. How do you not end up doing it all? There have been a number of times helping has become "Mama do it while the kids sit there slacking and Mama gets mad at getting taken advantage of." Help!
I didn't mean to sound like my kids don't help - they do. I was just thinking of a specific helping dynamic, and I think I figured it out. It's the general helping that isn't so helpful. The kind of helping that I've been doing more of lately works better, more specific advice, like breaking the stuff to be picked up into categories and assigning categories, for example. More direction than joining them in the doing. Or handing them stuff and telling them where to put it, because it can be hard to figure out where stuff goes.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:14 AM   #81
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Default Re: The Five Steps

The Five Steps sound great to me, except I can't imagine saying them. I don't want to flippantly reword them, because I know words can carry power in their meaning and I can tell that these have been well thought out. Here's how I'd naturally say them (my own DD is just 9 months but I have cared for many many children, including some who were put in my care specifically because of their behavior). Please help me see whether these wordings are equal, and if not, why. Thanks!

1: "I need you to clean up now. It is time to leave."
2: "Please stop playing and clean up."
3: "I see that you haven't cleaned up yet. Do you need me to help you?"
4: "You haven't cleaned up, and we need to go. Here, let me help you clean up."
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:21 AM   #82
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Default Re: The Five Steps

I have a quick thought to share regarding this one. . .
Quote:
2: "Please stop playing and clean up."
It's recommended that when telling them what they need to do--in other words, something that is not optional--that saying "please" be avoided. That's because children tend to perceive something as optional if they hear the word "please." Some mothers find that saying please works okay for them, but removing the "please" from non-optional requests is definitely something to consider if a child is having a hard time following through on what you ask them to do.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:46 AM   #83
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Default Re: The Five Steps

really I am only starting to give Maximus more than 3 steps out of those five. Max is 4.5.

It's more like:

1- Maximus you need to do/stop yourself doing XYZ.
2- Maximus can you stop yourself or do you need help?
3- (as I am moving to help him) Mommy will help you do/stop XYZ.


Now- if it's dangerous or goign to make a huge mess that he can't clean up you can bet it goes more like this-

'Maximus I am going to help you stop this.' (again AS I am at his side to help) 'It is dangerous/yucky.'

With Minimus (who's 2)-

"Minimus- get yourself down on the floor"
"(as I am helping him down) Feet stay on floor- no feet on table!"

The biggest shift for me in the five steps was expecting that they will from time to time (and sometimes often) fail to comply. Just like we fail to hit the target in our spiritual walks. Help is always available for us, so it should always be avaiable for our kiddos.


Sothisislove- I think removing him from the store in lieu of an on the spot bear hug is fine. tHe whole point is to provide a boundary where their own boundaries have either failed or are not yet in place. After all thwe first thing I do when faced with a temtpting purchase, is leave the store. You're teaching fleeing from temptation- and that you will help him do that- get unstuck- as it were. I think you did fine.
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:11 AM   #84
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Default Re: The Five Steps

Quote:
Originally Posted by delightedmama View Post
The Five Steps sound great to me, except I can't imagine saying them. I don't want to flippantly reword them, because I know words can carry power in their meaning and I can tell that these have been well thought out. Here's how I'd naturally say them (my own DD is just 9 months but I have cared for many many children, including some who were put in my care specifically because of their behavior). Please help me see whether these wordings are equal, and if not, why. Thanks!

1: "I need you to clean up now. It is time to leave."
2: "Please stop playing and clean up."
3: "I see that you haven't cleaned up yet. Do you need me to help you?"
4: "You haven't cleaned up, and we need to go. Here, let me help you clean up."
these rewordings will sabotage you

You don't need them to clean up--if you do then the focus is on you instead of them learning what is their responsibility. The point of saying "you need to" is that it is their responsibility--their toys, their time, their teeth, etc.

"Please" is, technically, a request and that means that, especially for literal children, saying this makes it optional. I can always tell when I've slipped into "please" with my young children because I have children who let me know, "No," they won't be stopping to do it I inform them that was my bad on the word choice and it isn't optional and follow with, "You need to X because this is your responsibility."

Step 3 isn't really reworded And 4 isn't either--but that's a lot of words and at that point the amount of resistance it takes to get there usually means it's better with less words

Also, for very young children or children who need to have parental authority (re)established I do step 1 and step 4 at the same time (or quickly following).

by all means use whatever words you want with your child That just wouldn't be the 5 Steps

ETA: the words feel awkward because they aren't how we normally speak . . . but they are the healthy way to speak. I have even found the first step works wonders on lots of people in my life who are crossing boundaries )
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:19 AM   #85
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Default Re: The Five Steps

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove View Post
these rewordings will sabotage you

You don't need them to clean up--if you do then the focus is on you instead of them learning what is their responsibility. The point of saying "you need to" is that it is their responsibility--their toys, their time, their teeth, etc.

"Please" is, technically, a request and that means that, especially for literal children, saying this makes it optional. I can always tell when I've slipped into "please" with my young children because I have children who let me know, "No," they won't be stopping to do it I inform them that was my bad on the word choice and it isn't optional and follow with, "You need to X because this is your responsibility."

Step 3 isn't really reworded And 4 isn't either--but that's a lot of words and at that point the amount of resistance it takes to get there usually means it's better with less words

Also, for very young children or children who need to have parental authority (re)established I do step 1 and step 4 at the same time (or quickly following).

by all means use whatever words you want with your child That just wouldn't be the 5 Steps

ETA: the words feel awkward because they aren't how we normally speak . . . but they are the healthy way to speak. I have even found the first step works wonders on lots of people in my life who are crossing boundaries )
Thanks for your response -- this is exactly what I was looking for. And especially the explanation of why it's true that they "need" to do whatever... I was feeling like it wasn't honest to say "you need to" because I'm the one bothered by a pile of toys, but you're right that they need to learn responsibility.

Thanks again
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Old 05-05-2015, 05:31 PM   #86
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Default Re: The Five Steps

I am new here and haven't read through all of the questions/responses so please forgive me if these have already been asked/answered...
1. what ages would you say this would work with?
2. what if it is a situation that doesn't warrant 3 or 4 times of telling them to listen? is there a way to shorten it?
3. have you found that these steps teach children to eventually (as they mature and get older) listen the very first time?
thanks for any insight you can give me
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Old 05-05-2015, 06:14 PM   #87
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Default Re: The Five Steps

Hi JeanineF, welcome.

I'm not sure what age you're wanting to know *about*, exactly.
With toddlers, for instance, you often combine step 1 and step 4--tell them AS you're physically redirecting them away from things. So, "Feet on the floor" WHILE you are moving the child off the table and on to the floor, that kind of thing.

And yes, as they mature, they (mostly, if you're consistent) listen faster. I will say that depends on getting their attention *out* of the book they're reading first, though.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:08 PM   #88
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Default Re: The Five Steps

Well, I have a 4 year old son in particular that is difficult. My 5 year old daughter can be fairly strong willed and challenging at times as well. My 7 and 9 year olds are much better though.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:38 AM   #89
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Default Re: The Five Steps

Thank you so much for these steps...they were an answer to prayer as we moved toward gentle Biblical parenting...before we knew it existed! My question is wether or not you have a picture or diagram available of the Bear Hug. My three yr old will try to bite my arms and kick and slide out of this hold...then proceed to kick or hit me or my husband if we release him to allow him to just try to cool off without the hold. I'm not sure if we're doing it wrong. If not, what do you recommend we do. He is a very strong willed spirited boy...exceptionally loving and cuddly when happy with you...and physically hurtful and loud when he can't have what he wants. I will say that your first four steps have reduced the need for some type of restraint to stop him from hurting others...but when it happens...I am stuck. Thanks for any advice you can give.

Last edited by thequietwater; 09-28-2016 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 10-26-2016, 12:33 PM   #90
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Default Re: The Five Steps

Bumping this up for you, I'm not sure I've seen a diagram of the bear hug.
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