I need to say a few things about the idea of defiance

I get the developmental stuff. I get the sin nature stuff. I get the heart issues. I get all that. {throwing hands up in frustration} But, maybe I'm project oriented or think I have more control over the situation than I do, because I cannot reach the hearts of my children. Today at the store, they were goofing around. And I was trying very hard to contain the situation. Well, one 'popped' another one on the nose with one of those pool noodles. And they were 'discussing' the situation. And one said, "Well, what is popped?" and the other one punched him (hard!) in the head, and said, "*That* is popped!". It was bad. . . .. he's 10, and he's a big, strong boy, and caused damage to his 8 yo brother. I pulled him aside and talked with him. He said, basically, he didn't care ---- he was glad he did it. I see a very disturbing heart issues in both boys. .. .they. don't. care. About anyone, anything, whatsoever. They feel it is their right and will do whatever they need to do to exercise their right to physical expression of their unhappiness. I mean. . . I *get* it. . .. but. . . .how do I reach the hearts of my children, and why do they seem to have a much more sinful nature (if you will) than any other child I've known/met? Is it not defiance to go against what you know is right, with a person trying to help you to do right (I tried to stop him), and do it anyway?