Do you let your kids snack after supper?

[Kiara.I]

Originally Posted by Rose5000

I guess by this post I meant I was fearful because I feel that I'm just not doing the food thing with kids RIGHT.

I'm going to flip it around for you. Actually, your children aren't doing the eating thing RIGHT--that sounds like it's because your son has sensory issues. So ditch the idea of the perfect poster child who eats what he's told, when he's told, and accept the child you ACTUALLY have--the one with major sensory needs, so that you need to do some complicated dance to keep him fed.

That means that "Right" is what works for YOUR child, during THIS stage of his development. Who CARES if it matches, say, Weston A. Price? They're not parenting YOUR child, now, are they? What do you suppose their recommendations would look like if they were, day in and day out?

And yes, I do think you should address his eating with the therapist (wait, did you mean his therapist or your counsellor? Well, by all means talk to your counsellor about it too, as in, "How do I deal with these feelings of frustration and helplessness around my child's issues? How can I make this more emotionally healthy and productive?"

Originally Posted by Rose5000

sometimes i think if i just stop hiding the stuff and just provide lots of food and let them eat whatever they are interested in then at least he would eat more quantity/calories. is this being irresponsible ?

Yes?
Okay, like rjy9343 said, you choose the lesser of two evils. If you need to wash carrots down with licorice, maybe that's what you need to do. But I'm pretty sure that providing unlimited access to junk food to a child who *has repeatedly shown* that he is not good at self-regulating would be irresponsible.

Originally Posted by Rose5000

This brings up anotgher point: do you moms of young children just serve the food on a plate for the child or do you make sure you ask them what they want first.

I usually just serve it. BUT, I am dealing with neurotypical children who have not shown any texture sensitivities of any kind. I just serve it because experience tells me that I can. If experience tells you that you can't, then it doesn't matter what I do. You need to do what YOU need to do.

Originally Posted by Rose5000

But dh told me that maybe we just have to get used to seeing a lot of food go to waste, because whats worse is asking him what he wants and making several offers and have him refuse them all and then eat nothing. what do you ladies think? at least if i put food on a plate for all 3 meals plus made snacks available only at certain times, then at least we would not have the "everybody's hungry at a diff. time" thing goin' on.

Well, will that work for you? What will work best for your DS and you? Have you tried the "set menu of 5 options for breakfast" thing? If so, is it working? Should you consider a similar idea for dinner? That he can select what he's having, and then once you've made it, that's what he gets?

I do think that at 10, he can probably afford to just be hungry for a couple of meals if he decides to be extra contrary. I mean, he has food issues. Granted. If you've made him what he's said he wants and THEN he refuses to eat it and wants something else? I'd be inclined to say, "Tough cookies. Next meal at: " Has experience shown you that this would be effective with him? Or does he actually need to have multiple meals available at any given time?

[hollybells]

He's ten. We're not talking about a tiny toddler or pre-schooler. Barring feeding issues (and that's something to explore with his doctor / therapists), your job is to provide healthy food. He decides if he eats it. If you don't want him filling up on junk, don't bring it into the house. Not knowing any more than what you post, my kids at 10 would have likely chosen the treats / junkier foods if they knew they were there and if they knew I'd cave and let them have those instead of the healthier things I prepared for meals / snacks. I'd guess he knows how worried you are about his eating and he knows he has you over a barrel. If he refuses the healthier options, he likely knows you're going to give him the junkier things he's developed a taste for just to make sure he's eaten *something* ykwim?

In our home, I've always included at least one thing I know each family member will eat. Beyond that, they're welcome to make themselves a bowl of cereal (multi-grain cheerios, raisin bran etc. ... nothing exciting ) or a simple sandwich. No one starves but the option isn't eat this chicken, rice and veggies or fill up on fruit snacks, chips and or Mr. Noodle. Oh, the littlest (age 3) loves hummus and multigrain crackers. Actually, he prefers to just eat the hummus with a spoon so that's a protein he can substitute.

But I want to echo Kiara - we have a few anaphylactic food allergies but otherwise are dealing with neurotypical kids and what works in our home may or may not work in yours. I do think though at ten that it may be a preference that he knows will be indulged because you are so worried about him and his food intake. Start small - find a few healthier things that he likes and build from there. And, if it was me, I'd stop bringing in the "junk" (and please know I love me some junk and generally have a hidden stash of chocolate at all times ) until better eating habits are established.

Aaaaaand ... lots of post since I started so this may or may not be useful.

[Rose5000]

Originally Posted by Kiara.I

I'm going to flip it around for you. Actually, your children aren't doing the eating thing RIGHT--that sounds like it's because your son has sensory issues. So ditch the idea of the perfect poster child who eats what he's told, when he's told, and accept the child you ACTUALLY have--the one with major sensory needs, so that you need to do some complicated dance to keep him fed.

That means that "Right" is what works for YOUR child, during THIS stage of his development. Who CARES if it matches, say, Weston A. Price? They're not parenting YOUR child, now, are they? What do you suppose their recommendations would look like if they were, day in and day out?

aND I would add, *I* am the parent now, with my own particular weaknesses and idiosyncracies---food fears, perfectionism, ADD, worried about kids teeth because MINE were so filled with cavities as a youngster, health issues, emotional issues, marriage issues---and GIVEN ALL THAT, I must do the best I can with what I've got, huh?

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 AM ----------

if the Weston A. Price folks were parenting my kid right now day in and day out, I think they would recommend FOOD over perfection, CALORIES over starvation, SLOWLY adding things to my cooking repertoire as I am able, REJOICE that he loves beef marrow bone broth (!) and cooked spinach and raw cauliflower, build menus around Good-Enough foods he likes, offer lots of food frequently, keep working in my kitchen. Whatever they might recommend, if it was not DOABLE, chuck it.

And one more piece of advice that I don't need any expert to give me I can give to myself: even if the food out in the grocery store is not created by God in the sense that it grew in a garden the way it is presented in a box, it can still be "sanctified by the Word of God and prayer" as 1 Timothy tells us.

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by Rose5000

rjy- what kind of sandwich components does Ivy like? what kind of protein? my son likes the tillamook medium cheddar block cheese (aged) or slices of swiss or havarti or meunster. he will not eat lunch meat, hot dogs only if we have white buns, he likes beef jerky or dry salami. at one time he liked steak but lately no. he likes salmon. he likes breaded frozen fish sticks. sometimes corn dogs. right now it is 3:45 pm and he had some homemade fried potatoes for breakfast, a tuna sandwich with 2 pieces of lettuce for lunch . that's it, ah! I'm giving him a snack now, olives, and fish stix, and more lettuce (his favorite). daughter is having cheese ravioli and bread.

Sometimes she will eat Applegate turkey and some cheddar cheese with some spinach. Otherwise she likes peanut butter in a bowl with some apples on the side. Her protein is peanut butter, unflavored gelatin that I hide in smoothies, sometimes nuts, goat's milk and plain yogurt with a little honey. Sometimes she will drink homemade broth, but that is not something I can count on happening. Fish is out of the question because my allergies are too severe, but my husband will take her out for it once it a while.
Because your son is ten, maybe you two can sit down and discuss what he wants to eat. While I agree that keeping junk in the house is not a good idea, cutting it out all at once may not be possible in your situation. But phasing it out can be done. You can even say no cookies that we do not bake or we only have ice cream if we go out for it to make it more special.

---------- Post added at 08:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Rose5000

everything, literally EVERYTHING, you say, rjy, is SPOT ON. you nailed it all right on the head. you got it completely accurate. you described my son to a tee. thanks for sharing your experiences, it helps to hear others' dealings with this difficulty. wrt to the difficulty finding something everyone will eat, do you end up eating different food than the family sometimes because you're so bored with the narrow list of foods they like?

I am not a short order cook and never wanted to be one.We eat the same thing at family meals more or less. I will give my family raw vegetables and cook my own, but they are the same vegetables. On weekdays, I do cook a lunch that they do not like but I enjoy because I do see why I should eat the same thing day in and day out because they don't like it.

[Rose5000]

Originally Posted by Kiara.I

I'm going to flip it around for you. Actually, your children aren't doing the eating thing RIGHT--that sounds like it's because your son has sensory issues. So ditch the idea of the perfect poster child who eats what he's told, when he's told, and accept the child you ACTUALLY have--the one with major sensory needs, so that you need to do some complicated dance to keep him fed.

May I read this above sentence to my husband?

And yes, I do think you should address his eating with the therapist (wait, did you mean his therapist or your counsellor? Well, by all means talk to your counsellor about it too, as in, "How do I deal with these feelings of frustration and helplessness around my child's issues? How can I make this more emotionally healthy and productive?"

I meant his therapist, when he gets one. Those are good questions for *my* therapist, too.

Yes?
Okay, like rjy9343 said, you choose the lesser of two evils. If you need to wash carrots down with licorice, maybe that's what you need to do. But I'm pretty sure that providing unlimited access to junk food to a child who *has repeatedly shown* that he is not good at self-regulating would be irresponsible.

yes, I will not put out a whole bucket of licorice again (like i did once : () but I *could* use a little lightening up in some areas, for example, letting the gatorade bottles hang out in the kitchen cupboard instead of hiding them in the bedroom, that way, he can get plenty hydrated, a huge area of weakness for him. Just today, after trying just that, he announced to me that his urine is no longer deep orange, but almost white. which means he is getting some good hydration.: )

I usually just serve it. BUT, I am dealing with neurotypical children who have not shown any texture sensitivities of any kind. I just serve it because experience tells me that I can. If experience tells you that you can't, then it doesn't matter what I do. You need to do what YOU need to do.

THANKS.

Have you tried the "set menu of 5 options for breakfast" thing? If so, is it working?

UMM....no, not yet.

Should you consider a similar idea for dinner? That he can select what he's having, and then once you've made it, that's what he gets?

MAYbe.

I do think that at 10, he can probably afford to just be hungry for a couple of meals if he decides to be extra contrary. I mean, he has food issues. Granted. If you've made him what he's said he wants and THEN he refuses to eat it and wants something else? I'd be inclined to say, "Tough cookies. Next meal at: " Has experience shown you that this would be effective with him?

EXPerience has shown me that he doesn't like what is made? he will go looking for something, anything that will taste good ......and sometimes that leads to finding nothing, walking out to his screens which masks the hunger..

....Or does he actually need to have multiple meals available at any given time?

HMMM..... he needs to have me make sure that there are things that he does like both in the house and cooked so when hungry he can find *something* (!) I'm not quite sure how a person / a mom would do that one---multiple meals at same time available. can you picture that better and then i can give a better answer?

[Kiara.I]

Originally Posted by Rose5000

May I read this above sentence to my husband?

Sure.

I'm glad your son's getting hydrated. (Deep orange? Really? Is that consistent for him? Yikes!)

Originally Posted by Rose5000

EXPerience has shown me that he doesn't like what is made? he will go looking for something, anything that will taste good ......and sometimes that leads to finding nothing, walking out to his screens which masks the hunger..

Does that matter? (Assuming you've removed the other foods of choice...) Will it mean that at the next meal he's actually hungry and will eat?

Originally Posted by Rose5000

HMMM..... he needs to have me make sure that there are things that he does like both in the house and cooked so when hungry he can find *something* (!) I'm not quite sure how a person / a mom would do that one---multiple meals at same time available. can you picture that better and then i can give a better answer?

Well, I haven't had to deal with it, so not really.

He's 10. Teach him to cook. Seriously, make a list of precisely TWO things that he can choose to make himself to substitute for a meal if he doesn't like what's offered, and then make him take care of it. NOT junk as a substitute, those two choices. Peanut butter sandwiches are a common substitute I've seen, if he'll eat those. Or an egg and toast, something like that.

But at 10, you should be working toward giving him the skills to take care of that himself.

[rjy9343]

Have you had your son tested for allergies, autism or sensory issues or any other medical issues? Your son sounds very much like he has sensory issues of some sort to me. If he does, then food is a very scary thing to him. I got through to my husband who wanted to force the issue by comparing forcing her to eat to following him around with a spider. My husband is afraid of spiders and I am not. I explained that forcing her to eat is like me following him around with a big fuzzy spider insisting that he kiss and pet the spider since it just loves him to bits and pieces. Never mind that just thinking about it makes your heart rate go up and your palms sweat, I have decided that you are going to get over this nonsense about spiders no matter what. I am not sure that he completely believes that she fears food, but having a fear that he knows is in his head made him rethink his methods. He is still worried about her, he is just less inclined to take such a hard line with her.

[Rose5000]

Originally Posted by Kiara.I

Does that matter? (Assuming you've removed the other foods of choice...) Will it mean that at the next meal he's actually hungry and will eat?
.

okay for example.
he is served dinner. doesn't like it.
goes to the kitchen looking for something.
let's say i have nothing that is "treat, or sweet" in there and he finds nothing else he wants, wanders out , goes to play ,

your Q. is, will then he be good and hungry for the next meal.

no, he will not wait until the next meal he will wait maybe another 1/2 to 1 hour and come back and ask me to make him something.

---------- Post added at 06:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

or beg for something sweet
or find something that isn't protein like olives and eat that

---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kiara.I

Sure.

I'm glad your son's getting hydrated. (Deep orange? Really? Is that consistent for him? Yikes!)
.

not all the time.

---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kiara.I

Sure.

I'm glad your son's getting hydrated. (Deep orange? Really? Is that consistent for him? Yikes!)



Does that matter? (Assuming you've removed the other foods of choice...) Will it mean that at the next meal he's actually hungry and will eat?



Well, I haven't had to deal with it, so not really.

He's 10. Teach him to cook. Seriously, make a list of precisely TWO things that he can choose to make himself to substitute for a meal if he doesn't like what's offered, and then make him take care of it. NOT junk as a substitute, those two choices. Peanut butter sandwiches are a common substitute I've seen, if he'll eat those. Or an egg and toast, something like that.

But at 10, you should be working toward giving him the skills to take care of that himself.

He's 11 now.

Peanut butter- no go--won't touch any nut! becasue as a baby he broke out in hives with peanuts so he is unwilling to try things like almond butter as well) egg and toast----scrambled eggs, but not toast (he doesnt' eat toast--weird, huh?....) Kiara, here's his favorite go to make himself easy meal that he likes to always have in the house by i only buy 1 or 3 at a time because i don't think they're that good for him--maybe i should reconsider and just buy lots of these: yakisoba or cup of noodles....what do you think?

and teaching him to cook is a good idea, yes. he actually can cook the following:
mushrooms
spinach in olive oil
grilled cheese
yakisoba

"But at 10, you should be working toward giving him the skills to take care of that himself." THIS.

---------- Post added at 06:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 PM ----------

Originally Posted by rjy9343

Have you had your son tested for allergies, autism or sensory issues or any other medical Issues?

i had him tested for autism.....he didn't have it, but the lady who did the first half of that assessment said he did have alot of things that pointed to the spectrum, but borderline.

Your son sounds very much like he has sensory issues of some sort to me.

yES, he absolutely does. we need to get him assessed for that as part of the current help-seeking I'm doing right now for him, but it's a little less urgent than some other issues. allergies? no, don't know how to go about that and with whom.

If he does, then food is a very scary thing to him.[

oH, my! yes! that's even how he reacts *sometimes* when I try to see if he will eat something new---he will act frightened, tense up, shake, and get non-verbal, make noises. like a panick reaction: 'please don't make me eat that!'

I got through to my husband who wanted to force the issue by comparing forcing her to eat to following him around with a spider. My husband is afraid of spiders and I am not. I explained that forcing her to eat is like me following him around with a big fuzzy spider insisting that he kiss and pet the spider since it just loves him to bits and pieces. Never mind that just thinking about it makes your heart rate go up and your palms sweat, I have decided that you are going to get over this nonsense about spiders no matter what. I am not sure that he completely believes that she fears food, but having a fear that he knows is in his head made him rethink his methods. He is still worried about her, he is just less inclined to take such a hard line with her.

that's good.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------

Originally Posted by hollybells

He's ten. We're not talking about a tiny toddler or pre-schooler. Barring feeding issues (and that's something to explore with his doctor / therapists), your job is to provide healthy food. He decides if he eats it. If you don't want him filling up on junk, don't bring it into the house. Not knowing any more than what you post, my kids at 10 would have likely chosen the treats / junkier foods if they knew they were there and if they knew I'd cave and let them have those instead of the healthier things I prepared for meals / snacks. I'd guess he knows how worried you are about his eating and he knows he has you over a barrel. If he refuses the healthier options, he likely knows you're going to give him the junkier things he's developed a taste for just to make sure he's eaten *something* ykwim?

Yes that exactly what we have goin on here d.

In our home, I've always included at least one thing I know each family member will eat. Beyond that, they're welcome to make themselves a bowl of cereal (multi-grain cheerios, raisin bran etc. ... nothing exciting ) or a simple sandwich. No one starves but the option isn't eat this chicken, rice and veggies or fill up on fruit snacks, chips and or Mr. Noodle. Oh, the littlest (age 3) loves hummus and multigrain crackers. Actually, he prefers to just eat the hummus with a spoon so that's a protein he can substitute.

that's awesome(hummus).
Can you paint a picture of a meal that has something everybody likes? Is there always a protein each will eat?

But I want to echo Kiara - we have a few anaphylactic food allergies but otherwise are dealing with neurotypical kids and what works in our home may or may not work in yours. I do think though at ten that it may be a preference that he knows will be indulged because you are so worried about him and his food intake. Start small - find a few healthier things that he likes and build from there. And, if it was me, I'd stop bringing in the "junk" (and please know I love me some junk and generally have a hidden stash of chocolate at all times ) until better eating habits are established.

Aaaaaand ... lots of post since I started so this may or may not be useful.

Very useful; thanks! With yakisoba I think u r right he knows I am worried abt his food intake d. Ineed to revive his favorite protein foods: meatloaf, salmon, chili or bean soup...

[MariJo7]

Mushroom, spinache and grilled cheese, yummy, I'd love that. Does he like it? That's not a bad meal at all, and he can make it himself? Maybe he will grow to be a very refined vegetarian cook one day .

[Rose5000]

If your son was always getting into the apple juice that dh *has* to have in the house to take his herbs with, what would you ladies do,?

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------

That is to say, dh doesn't mind him getting into it - if it runs out he just buys more/ they're gallon size bottles---

---------- Post added at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

--but my son drinks so much of it I'm worried about his heslth.

I have asked dh if he could do without it / stop buying it but he says he can't.

[MariJo7]

If it is real apple juice I'd perhaps allow it. It is better than Pepsi-Cola in any case.

[Rose5000]

That the one good thing sbout it: it's the Santa Cruz unfiltered apple juice. Yeah.

[Rose5000]

Do you all think my son's eating balsamic vinegar every day sometimes twice or even three times a day is uhealthy? He craves things like lemon juice (straight) , pickles, and vinegar.

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

Originally Posted by milkmommy

my kids (especially the little one) wastes about 80% of foods they request much less the prepared for her meals she often rejects outright. Overall her choices are good and healthy and like others we bring little of the "other" stuff into the house anyways. Our food budget is somewhat generous but not just unlimited. My youngest is at a very normal healthy weight maybe a tiny bit on the smaller end for her height but well with in normal.. Cecilia struggles a bit with her weight and tends to carb load despite all efforts to improve on this. I have no desire though to belittle her or make her feel like she needs to eat less or "diet" obviously. She seldom asks for between meal set snack time foods anyways.
Margaret however will ask for this or that all day long take one bite or poke it or just let it sit and go bad its extremely wasteful. So yes we eat by a set rountinue..
They wake to having some fresh bread or biscuits made very low if any sugar except very special occasions. OR some crock pot oatmeal and a bowl of fresh fruit they can choose from. its enough to stop first morning hunger. If protein is very much desired we almost always have some boiled eggs in the fridge.. My early risers (DD and Margaret are ussually up and about by 6:30 I'm not a morning person so I make sure this is all out a ready the night before.

about 9am I'll often offer a more protein rich "snack" or breakfast sumplement. Scrambled eggs, yogurt, cottage cheese etc...

Lunch comes around 11am and we eat in usually 3 "courses" a veggie/salad type dish Cecilia wont touch most veggies but will do cold green salads so I totally go with it.. Then the "meal" which totally varies from Organic free range ideal meals to frozen pizza then a "dessert" course which is often like fresh fruit cheese etc and seldom a real sugary desert.. Lunch is served casually over a period of about 1.5 hours.. People can have as much or as little as they want and we have many alternitives if the main fare is not likes. I jsut dont allow minds to be changes 10 times and multiple food wasted. drink is almost always water Margaret sometimes gets tea or both girls occasionally do lemonade

We typically do a snack or "tea" time around 3ish typically small sandwiches cut veggies and or fresh fruit if we are doing something more sugary sweet its usually given at this time.

Dinner is typically around 6pm and mimics dinner in courses its typically around 7pm or so when the "dessert" course is served..

Margaret then goes right to her bath then bedtime. More food 99% of the time is just a non issue. IF she does happen to ask I will first establish that she is serious and not just playing or bored. Then I'll sit her down and have her eat. It happens ocassionally but it certainly isn't normal.

Cecilia will typically come looking for a little something before her bedtime.

SO in a typical day from about 6:00am to 8pm my kids have access to meals and or snacks
at least 5 times a day with a big deal of length and flex to atleast 3 of those 5 times. That comes out to food being offered less than every 3 hours.. those staying up past this time get access to more and if someone wakes hungry yes they are fed. However I dont feel its unreasonable for us to say we need to wait a bit at times outside of these.. We tried free range and it was a disaster. Nothing but whinning and constant claims of hunger. I cringed at hearing the words. Now I hardly hear it attitudes are so much better.

When u say a big deal of length and flex to 3 of those 5 meal times, do you mean the kids come and go to the table? Like with your lunch being about 11:00 to 12:30- r u saying kids have a choice exactly when in there they want to come to the table, but the food stays available out on the table for that hour and a half?

[MariJo7]

I might be worried about his teeth. Very sour products very often may damage the tooth enamel.
Would he at least agree to eat a piece of cheese with his "treat"? And in any case: do not let him brush his teeth right away. Wait for at least half an hour. You might also try to rinse his mouth with some baking soda (1 teaspoon in a 1/2 glass of water). And explain to him it is to protect his teeth, not to tease him.

[bliss]

Craving acidic or sour foods can mean the stomach acids are out of balance - like he may not be making enough stomach acid.