Random Quotes from Wise Mamas |
br>
|
Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing. A public forum. Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
08-20-2014, 11:50 PM | #1 |
Rose Bouquet
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
|
If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age, how important is it that your church is not pro spanking?
We started at a church a few months ago. DS10 absolutely loves the children's program. He has never, even at age 2, agreed to go to Sunday School - except here. They have a big program for 5th and 6th graders, which I think is great, as the big programs are usually only for jr high and high school. BUT The pastor is currently doing a series on families (which I think is in response to an email I sent him about a guest speaker who railed against gay marriage, but that is another topic!) and basically spent an entire sermon giving the lame "I was beat black and blue even at school and look at me now" and using the nanny's reasons why parents stink now blog post as an outline (I agree with all of her reasons, but he turned them into reasons to spank.) My question is, how important is your church's stance on spanking if your kids are outside the range of spanking (7 and 10)? I was annoyed, but honestly, his opinion does not apply to me at this point.
__________________
DS 10 DD 7 north Phoenix |
08-21-2014, 01:00 AM | #2 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 25,840
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
I personally would not like to be at a church where that is happening.
For me, it's not as much an issue of having an influence on me as it is how much I can trust coming out of the mouths of those preaching that. I've learned that if you believe in it THAT extensively, sometimes even mildly, your views on a lot of other things are much different than I want to be hearing and embracing.
__________________
MOMMY TO A - 14 A - 11 N - 8 |
The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to Codi For This Useful Post: | ArmsOfLove (08-21-2014), Auroras mom (08-24-2014), BarefootBetsy (08-21-2014), cbmk4 (08-21-2014), ECingMama (08-21-2014), emerald (08-22-2014), HadassahSukkot (08-21-2014), HuggaBuggaMommy (08-21-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), Kiara.I (08-21-2014), melissa5317 (08-21-2014), MercyInDisguise (08-21-2014), Rivendell Raven (08-21-2014), rjy9343 (08-24-2014), rosesnsnails (08-21-2014), ShiriChayim (08-21-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 04:19 AM | #3 |
Rose Garden
INTJ
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,198
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
I am currently evaluating a similar question. If such teaching came from the pulpit to the entire congregation, I would be out of there in a flash. I, personally could not support a church that so boldly proclaimed beating of children as acceptable and even desirable behavior. Knowing that they espouse such views would poison how I view the church. Additionally, I think that anyone who holds such views cannot help but have his/her theology tainted as well.
__________________
Married to my sweetheart for 25 years Mama to my four dear children ages 22, 19, (forever 13) and 10 |
The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to cbmk4 For This Useful Post: | ArmsOfLove (08-21-2014), Codi (08-21-2014), ECingMama (08-21-2014), emerald (08-22-2014), HuggaBuggaMommy (08-21-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), Johns_Gal (08-21-2014), Kiara.I (08-21-2014), MercyInDisguise (08-21-2014), Pragmatist (08-21-2014), rjy9343 (08-24-2014), rosesnsnails (08-21-2014), SewingGreenMama (08-21-2014), ShiriChayim (08-21-2014), Wonder Woman (08-21-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 04:34 AM | #4 |
Moderator
My kiddos
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: What is a Hoosier????
Posts: 9,975
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
I would question if they truly understand grace. . That is a deal breaker for me. Why don't grace and forgiveness apply to children? I wonder if this pastor believes God punishes. I could not deal with that.
__________________
Kathy , INFJ Loving Wife to Hubby since 8/97 Mama to Dink 12/06 Link 7/07 Wink 3/10 Pink 12/10 and Tink 5/16 Remembering |
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to MudPies For This Useful Post: | ArmsOfLove (08-21-2014), Codi (08-21-2014), Elspeth (09-15-2014), emerald (08-22-2014), HadassahSukkot (08-21-2014), HuggaBuggaMommy (08-21-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), melissa5317 (08-21-2014), MercyInDisguise (08-21-2014), rjy9343 (08-24-2014), SewingGreenMama (08-21-2014), ShiriChayim (08-21-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 05:35 AM | #5 |
Rose Garden
An Enneagram 7 type 1/2 ENTP
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Malawi!
Posts: 6,294
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
I wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if I loved the church otherwise. I may even consider it part of my ministry to younger families to show them that there is another (better, more Biblical) way.
__________________
Stacy here!
Enjoying my Complementarian marriage to Mr. Hutch since May 20, 2006 Blessed Mama of Miss H (16), Mr Big J (15), Miss T (14), Mr Little J (11), & Mr A (7) Missing three I will meet in Heaven (Feb 2012), (Apr 2016) & (Jun 2020) "Exercise gives you endorphins. Endorphins make you happy. Happy people don't shoot their husbands, they just don't." -Legally Blonde |
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to MrsHutch For This Useful Post: | flowermama (09-15-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), Jeanette598 (08-22-2014), JoEllen (08-21-2014), MercyInDisguise (08-21-2014), SewingGreenMama (08-21-2014) |
08-21-2014, 05:35 AM | #6 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,901
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
I think it's very important to attend a church which has a pastor who has the perspective of God being merciful and gracious vs. God being an angry God. Church leadership's perspective of God affects their teachings from the pulpit, to the youth, children, etc. Children are like sponges and absorb what they hear in the classroom as well as at home. I want my children to absorb that God is gracious and merciful rather than the false view that He's harsh and judgemental.
My pastor has grown children and believes spanking is a tool that occasionally may be needed but very rarely. I obviously don't agree with my pastor that there is a time when spanking may be needed but I love my pastor. He is a very gracious and merciful man. His message is one of grace and when he preached a parenting series it was full of advice about listening to your children, being in tune with them and their needs, looking at what's behind their misbehavior rather than being reactive. He put emphasis on his belief that a parent rarely needs to spank a child. He said that we should use natural and logical consequences and be proactive rather than reactive. He spoke about God being a gracious and just Father full of mercy and how we need to be the same way with our children. That same view of God being merciful and gracious is taught in the youth and children's ministries. The teachers correct from a paradigm of grace and teaching right from wrong rather than judgement. I think that it's important that church leadership have a grace-filled paradigm because it flavors the whole church. So that to say that I will attend a church where the pastor believes spanking is a tool one can use, as long as his view of God is one of Him being slow to anger and abounding in mercy and grace.
__________________
Sue ~Mom to four awesome boys ages 24, 22, 18, and 17 (and a wonderful daughter-in-love as of June 2022! ) Feel free to visit my little nook Last edited by Peaceful Meadows; 08-22-2014 at 02:16 AM. Reason: tons of typos. LOL |
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Peaceful Meadows For This Useful Post: | Dtswife (08-21-2014), ECingMama (08-21-2014), flowermama (09-15-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), MrsHutch (08-21-2014), rjy9343 (08-24-2014), Whirlwind (08-21-2014) |
08-21-2014, 05:44 AM | #7 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,356
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
I wouldn't be totally sure your kids are beyond spanking age.
For me it would depend on how strongly he was in favor of spanking. If he really spent an entire sermon on it, that's different from an off-handed mention of "I was spanked and I'm fine".
__________________
Erin born of water and of the Spirit 4/96 married 5/02 Mama to: 2004 2007 2010 2012 2017 2019 Jan 2, 2024 And many I hope to hold in heaven one day |
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Aerynne For This Useful Post: | Auroras mom (08-24-2014), BarefootBetsy (08-21-2014), DaltonsMomma (08-29-2014), ECingMama (08-21-2014), Elspeth (09-15-2014), flowermama (09-15-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), MercyInDisguise (08-21-2014), rjy9343 (08-24-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 07:07 AM | #8 |
Rose Garden
"You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be."
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seeking Simplicity
Posts: 12,684
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
Offhandedly mentioning "I was spanked and I'm fine" - not a dealbreaker.
Entire sermon about spanking and how good/necessary it is - a dealbreaker. I don't want my children being exposed to the doctrine of spanking taught from the pulpit and I want them to be in a community of faith that respects children and treats them kindly, with grace and love - not with harsh words and/or physical punishments.
__________________
Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world. |
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to BarefootBetsy For This Useful Post: | 3PeasInAPod (08-22-2014), cbmk4 (08-21-2014), DaltonsMomma (08-29-2014), ECingMama (08-21-2014), HadassahSukkot (08-22-2014), HuggaBuggaMommy (08-21-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), LoveIsGentle (08-21-2014), rjy9343 (08-24-2014), ShiriChayim (08-21-2014), Whirlwind (08-21-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 07:20 AM | #9 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,819
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
How do I want to phrase this. . . It's been my experience that congregations that lean pro spanking also lean pro patriarchy. Those two things often mean the congregation is more about power and the appearance of right action than heart, grace, and living in the trenches with their members through the dirty bits of life and the difficult moments that make disciples.
|
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to WanderingJuniper For This Useful Post: | BarefootBetsy (08-21-2014), Beth1231 (08-21-2014), cbmk4 (08-21-2014), emerald (08-22-2014), HadassahSukkot (08-22-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), melissa5317 (08-21-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 07:28 AM | #10 | ||
Rose Garden
Rock on!!!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,102
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
Quote:
Yes to all of this, but especially to what I put into bold. Part of that is that I'm parenting special needs so that definitely makes a difference for me. I want my children to be in a church where they will be valued for who they are and what they have to bring to the table. In a community where what you posted about is the normative, I would be constantly on edge, worried that my children will act like children and thus be labeled and treated harshly by people who expect different things from them. I also wanted to point out to you that this: Quote:
__________________
~Heather~
ENFP married to my ENJF hubby gently mothering: ds15yo- the performer, ds14yo- the gamer, ds 12yo- the adventurer, and dd 10yo-the dynamo Missing my little Malachi David and Hannah Danielle, in Jesus' arms Check out my blog "Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You." *Dr Seuss* |
||
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ShiriChayim For This Useful Post: | ArmsOfLove (08-22-2014), BarefootBetsy (08-21-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), melissa5317 (08-21-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 08:09 AM | #11 |
Rose Bouquet
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 814
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
The church I go to is awesome. They're all about grace, their children's programs are amazing, they don't care if babies fuss in the service, etc.
They also are ok with spanking. The head pastor did a wonderful sermon on parenting and families, and honestly, 97% could have been lifted from here or arms of love's blog, but he did have about two minutes on spanking as a tool to address defiance. I think I would be very, very, very hard pressed to find a church that meets all my other criteria AND advocates against punishment. Since their attitude, even when discussing punishment, is so based in grace and rooted in love, I'm on with agreeing to disagree, as it were on this issue. If they were wrathful and angry on this, they would be on other stuff too, and it would be entirely different.
__________________
Married since May 2010 to DT Mama to Zoe 8/1/13 Baby number two due May 17th 2015 |
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Dtswife For This Useful Post: | ArmsOfLove (08-22-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), MrsHutch (08-21-2014), Peaceful Meadows (08-22-2014), rjy9343 (08-24-2014), Whirlwind (08-21-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 12:49 PM | #12 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 4,924
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
Mentioning it occasionally I can deal with. What I can't handle is seeing or hearing spanking. If parents are encouraged to take their children out of the service to spank them, I'm out of there.
__________________
Sara (ISTJ) married to V since 7/99 Strawberry Shortcake- 3/07 Huckleberry Pie- 9/11 |
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Pragmatist For This Useful Post: | ECingMama (08-21-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), Peaceful Meadows (08-22-2014), rjy9343 (08-24-2014), Whirlwind (08-21-2014), Zooey (08-23-2014) |
08-21-2014, 02:31 PM | #13 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 12,267
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
Quote:
I attended a church for 8 years where EVERYONE spanked, except me. (There were families who spanked for every offense as a Biblical mandate, families who rarely spanked but felt like they "had to" for direct disobedience, and families on the spectrum between those two points; the pastor and his wife fell on the "less often" side of things.) But it was *never* preached from the pulpit, and children were treated as blessings. It was an okay church to be in. What you describe. No way. I'd be gone.
__________________
Christa Oldest, 22 Middlest, 13 Youngest, 10 |
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to HuggaBuggaMommy For This Useful Post: | BarefootBetsy (08-21-2014), Dtswife (08-21-2014), jandjmommy (08-21-2014), melissa5317 (08-21-2014), Peaceful Meadows (08-22-2014) |
08-21-2014, 10:19 PM | #14 |
Rose Bouquet
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
Thank you!
I'm almost out of churches to visit in our area. This was about the sixth place I found and since DS decided he actually wanted to participate I just settled in. It is a very large church, as were all of the others I visited, and I'm starting to think that Arizona may be a somewhat conservative state. I honestly thought that most of the punitive/backward religious thinking would only be pervasive in tiny cultish churches nowadays. Shows what I know! I will try the last church I've found and hope it works out better than this one! I don't enjoy any aspect of the service and I feel like I'd get over-involved trying to change everything if I even put a toe in to volunteer. Obviously this strategy is rarely successful. DS can still be involved with the youth activities if he wants to without having to attend that church. ETA: The kids did not hear this sermon because they were in Sunday School. That's why I was wondering how much it could matter if I could manage to blow it off. But after reading all of the replies I actually thought about why I go there, and there is no compelling reason outside of DS's interest in the activities for his age group.
__________________
DS 10 DD 7 north Phoenix Last edited by jandjmommy; 08-21-2014 at 10:23 PM. |
08-21-2014, 10:22 PM | #15 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,120
|
Re: If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...
Finding a new church is hard. I pray that the right church for you is crystal clear.
__________________
|
The Following User Says Thank You to mommylove For This Useful Post: | jandjmommy (08-22-2014) |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
X vBulletin 3.8.3 Debug Information | |
---|---|
|
|
More Information | |
Template Usage:
Phrase Groups Available:
|
Included Files:
Hooks Called:
|