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Old 09-25-2014, 06:26 AM   #1
KSM
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Default Temper tantrums

I just found this board about a week ago and had never heard of grace based discipline before. I'm curious to hear how y'all would handle public temper tantrum....in a huge 65 lb 6 year old, not a toddler.

Last night, a lot of the boys at church were playing football after dinner. Dis is used to being the biggest, fastest kid his age, but last night the other boys were 2-3 years older. When ds wasn't the best he started to get really mad (this is something we're working on, and I think it's good for him to lose sometimes). Then he started to cheat and the other boys didn't want to play with a cheater. When ds whined to me, I explained that he should play by the rules if he wanted to play. He wanted me to sympathize and force the other kids to play with him. When I didn't make other kids play, that's when he started jumping, flailing, screaming, and just throwing an all out temper tantrum. I ended up dragging ds to the van where we stayed until his brothers were done playing then telling him if he acted that way he was obviously too tired and needed to go straight to bed when we got home. (He continued to scream in the van and on the way home, 45+ minutes total)

I know that spanking would stop this for him, but that's not the best solution. He wants to hate himself and craves yelling and punishment. At age 4, he did this 5-10 times a day and was sent to his room every time. At age 5, the temper tantrums decreased some, but I was pregnant and there were times I had to call someone else to sit with him while took his little brother and left to keep us safe. At age 6, he was officially adopted and we threatened spankings, within a month the temper tantrums stopped for over half a year. Lately, he is so angry at his birth mom, he wants to feel sorry for himself. Last night, there was no loss of control. He was very obviously forcing himself to throw a fit. He WANTED everyone to hate him and think he's crazy. He WANTED me to yell and spank him. He tried to push all my buttons to make me mad (screaming, hitting, calmly saying "if you tell me sad things like I have to go to bed I'm just going to be more afraid of you and never love you").

Well, now that I feel like I've written a book.... Lol. Sorry for the novel. Sorry if this isn't an appropriate post?
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Old 09-25-2014, 06:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

First, welcome to GCM.

Second 2 Sounds like a tough situation where your son has more playing into his behaviors than what the trigger at the moment is. 45+ minutes of anger plus a history of multiple meltdowns in one day as a regular thing in past years, and he is recently officially adopted. That is a lot of factors that point to him needed some extra help. It also sounds like he is desperately in need of knowing that you will love him forever no matter what even if he doesn't realize at such a young age that that is what he is
testing.

I hope you find support here and a way to help your son. 6 is hard enough and when there is more going on that challenges even tougher.
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Old 09-25-2014, 06:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

it sounds like there is a bit more for him going on than the average child. hopefully some one with experience with adopted children can chime in.

In those situations I *try* to put myself in their place. How would I feel if I was littler and not as good, and didn't have the maturity or life experience to tell me I was littler and had less practice and that it was okay?

I would want some one to sympathize and validate those feelings of frustration. As a Mom I would still hold the natural consequence that "no one wants to play with a cheater" and pull the child from play. Also, it is my job as the parent to recognize when my kid has hit their limit for interaction, or is hungry/tired. I would have pulled him away the minute he was losing it/ the other kids were calling him on the cheating. We would have said "you look like you could use a snack" and taken him for a drink and a snack in the car. I would have pulled out my emergency "this kid is done and we're in damage control mode" activity that I keep in the car (audio books, lacing toys, kindle, me reading aloud, tanegrams) if we couldn't just leave then and there.

Tantrums are a sign that some thing is out of sync. Spanking some times stops them- it doesn't fix what is causing the tantrum. My middle dd rages regularly. For her there is a strong sensory component. She lacks body awareness and seeks feeling and grounding for her body by acting out aggressively or rolling around on the floor screeching because her body feels BAD. She doesn't have the maturity to stop and choose a peaceful calm way to help ground herself...she Just snaps.

I could spank her and stop her tantrums, it actually does work well because it gives her input and feeling to her body she craves . It doesn't teach her to recognize that her BODY has a need, and she can meet that need constructively. I try to be the problem solver, she is heading for a meltdown - I can guess what the trigger is (she needs input to her sensory input , or her blood sugar is low, she is thirsty and doesn't recognize the sensation, she is tired ) and meet the need as best I can.
I can't always stop the tantrums, but I can always learn from them and know where she is and what she can handle, and what she can't. Some times that means I have to treat her like a little toddler in what freedom I give her (she can't handle being out late in the evening, so we get her to bed at her regular time...she can't handle playing in certain environments with out being triggered for a meltdown, so we try to set her up for success by avoiding those environments until she has better coping skills/more maturity)...some times she hits a new developmental leap and we enjoy new freedoms, other times she regresses and we have to evaluate.

When you have a kid who has a hard time with regulating their emotions beyond the toddler years, you have to look at why. And as a parent it is our job to set them up for success so they can learn to self regulate: that is the goal.

Stuffing feelings because they are afraid of being hurt just makes the issue worse.
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

Normally going out to snack would have been my go to option. It just so happened that last night we were all eating supper up at church. He had already finished and refused to sit down for a drink or more food. The whole thing of getting mad, to cheating, to tantruming all progressed in less than 2 minutes.

I'm really interested in the way you described your dd needing sensory input. That may be my ds. I've noticed he is not normal or average in that area. Example: at the playground when other kids just play normally, my ds will climb up to the top just to jump off and land in a roll through the rocks. I guess I had never connected those behaviors to having anything to do with meltdowns.

I may also reevaluate his bedtime. Last year, he didn't handle kindergarten well at all and had to be in bed by 5:30 to avoid meltdowns. We slowly pushed bedtime back to 7:00 over the summer (still seems early) but that may be part of the problem. I had hoped he could handle a later bedtime with homeschool and rest time during the day.

We have seen a therapist. He can only do so much when the behaviors are almost always at home and not seen by others. He did encourage us that ds will hopefully be able to function nearly at age level by 9 or 10.
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

Huge hugs! I'm flat on my back in bed and want to come to talk about this when I can sit up with a keyboard in a few days. Hard to give this justice from my phone!
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Old 09-25-2014, 03:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

Part of the problem is that he's newly adopted and testing you to make sure you won't get rid of him when he acts up. When he feels more secure, he will stop doing that. In the meantime, if he isn't already, he needs to be in therapy for help dealing with his big feelings about his birth mom and whatever issues are behind that.

He also does need you to sympathize with him sometimes. Other kids not wanting to play with you stinks, regardless of the reason. After you've recognized his feelings, you can deal with the reason that the other kids don't want to play, and if possible, let him make amends.

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Old 09-25-2014, 06:04 PM   #7
KSM
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Default Temper tantrums

Maybe I should sympathize with him more.. I do try to always acknowledge his feelings and explain that emotions are never wrong, we just need to consider how to express those emotions.

We had a nice talk this morning. I asked if he wanted to talk about last night. Ds told me, "I know I shouldn't have screamed like I did. I was way too tired. Will you please make me take naps again?" We talked about all sorts of other stuff after that. I also caught him telling ds2 later when he was acting up, "you should listen to Mama, but even if you don't she will still love you forever"
I dunno. I guess I'm feeling a tiny bit more hopeful now.
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Old 10-19-2014, 05:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

Is he getting professional counseling services? That's the first place I would start, tantrums in six year olds aren't unusual, but when there's a history of trauma, it's a good idea to meet that head on in counseling rather than wait (or deal with it through re-traumatizing). In that situation, I would probably have been waiting for a meltdown, he is six, being big doesn't mean his brain is more developed than any other six year old, playing with kids who are more mature is hard and even harder when you find yourself cutting corners to stay on top and wind up being called out for it. I have a four year old who has pretty regular meltdowns in public, he has sensory and autism symptoms and there's only so much he can take. It's been a lot of observing and acknowledging how much of other humans he can handle, then being willing to call it a day when he's reached his threshold. But, still, it happens, as someone who also works with special needs kids, my first and foremost priority is safety. If everyone is safe and all that's happening is hollering, while loud and maybe embarrassing, it's not hurting anyone. Leave as soon as possible with as little intervention as possible (brainstorm ways of coping in the moment, my son responds well to using head phones to silence the noise around him, pulling his hood over his eyes, having my phone, blowing bubbles, manipulating putty, etc). If someone is in danger of being hurt, is hurt, or there is some other reason to believe there is imminent threat to anyone, then I have gone so far as to put him in a kneeling one-arm hold and then carry him away from the stimuli (though he's only 40 pounds). Otherwise, yeah, even in public, I make sure he is safe and others are safe and I will just be his human shield and then I will snuggle him after it's over because it's not just embarrassing for the parent--- it's embarrassing for the kiddo as well, they need someone who will keep others away from them, keep them safe, and love them unconditionally. I've gotten looks and comments from people, they can mind their own.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

Spankings mean distance - an emotional break in relationship. It does sound like you son is pushing to see if he can make you 'not love him' or 'leave him'. Adopted children often have abandonment issues and I suspect there is a lot of fear related to this behavior. The fact that his behavior has caused you to go away in the past might need to be addressed as few little children are logically enough to process that situation - they only know that you went away and they were the reason. I do think professional help to work through some of those things can definitely help because the behavior comes from an emotion or a thought. You don't want to just get him to 'act right', you want him to feel safe and secure and loved and that's a bit different than just modifying his behavior.
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Old 10-20-2014, 11:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

A six year old is still very little boy. In the situation you described, he was playing football with older children and he did not "play the rules". Did he understand the rules? Were they understandable to his level of age, or to the level of development he is in right now?

I do feel for your little fellow even I've never been a little boy myself . When I was little I can remember having tantrums. Often they occurred in contexts were some kind of "games with rules" were involved. I can remember I hated "competitions" of any kind and all games with rules that were about "winning or loosing". Often I could not even understand the rules. The only thing I was able to understand was, that I was not succesful in "the game" and I was "loosing" and did not know why. I also understood that the others were having fun but I did not, and somehow I suspected they were having fun at my expence. Well, that made me mad, and being a clumsy, non-sportive 6yo with just average verbal and social skills, the only thing I could do was to throw a tantrum. My good dad, who was not a Christian (Thank's to God!), did not really believe in spanking, but sometimes he lost his patience with me in such a situation and spanked me anyway. I still think it was very unfair to force me to join a competition and then to punish me because I did not like it and actually only wanted to do something else but could not tell it.

(Please, do not get me wrong about my dad. I loved my dad and after I got saved I prayed for his salvation also. Because what I saw around me, I DID however thank God I did not have Christian parents when I was little, but just average, "normal" parents.)

I still do not enjoy competitive games. As an adult, I now have the skills to politely decline and to do something else, but 6 year olds are not yet bestowed with great social graces. . I still can not understand why especially boys are expected to enjoy competitions and games with rules all the time. Perhaps your boy would enjoy some non-competitive activities much better, sch as observing birds, collecting plants, growing vegetables or doing some cooking together or caring for an animal or reading books...

I'm very glad to hear you have not spanked him. That may have looked like an easy option but actually it is a trap. I'm glad you did not fall for it. Even James Dobson advises not to use spanking if there is a suspicion of a development disorder or any other need for therapy or if the adopted child has a traumatic background. What is your boy's background? What do you know about it? If a 6-year old wants to be spanked (that's what I understood from your story), there must have been something wrong with where place he comes from. It is not normal for a 6yo to "crave for yelling and punishment". The things you tell about him make me suspect somebody, perhaps his birth mother, has used the Pear methods on him, or Ted Tripp methods.
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:49 PM   #11
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

Ok...sorry. I have been really sick. If I don't respond again for awhile, that is probably why. I'm sorry I haven't been able to give this the attention I would like to.


My son is adopted. He was adopted as an infant and had a lovely foster family, so we know that there is not likely anything like his experience there that caused any issues.

He also has high functioning autism. Because of that, he has intense sensory needs and some mild communication problems. The combination can lead to intense, intense tantrums and rages.

A little over year ago, we started working with a positive support autism program. They went through everything in our lives with a fine tooth come. It was greatly appreciated. We already had realized, years and years ago, that spank enforced the behavior we wanted to avoid. It was giving him the intense input he craved. So.....he craved input, he did things that earned him a spanking again, and then he was ok for a bit...maybe. By 1.5 years old, we were changing our parenting philosophy. We had started restraining him because his behaviors were so intense...to protect him and us. We restrained as a method of helping him until a little under a year ago.

The restraints had taken the place of spanking in the deep input realm. He was doing things to get restrained to get himself regulated. Wow. What an eye opening moment when we were able to put that together! So, followed a few months of detoxing from that and him learning to regulate himself. We still have a few occasions where we have to deal with the behaviors and he becomes unregulated and needs help, but now he gets support in ideas to help himself and we refuse to give him physical input in the way of restraining, spanking or anything that will reinforce those behaviors. He can ask for tickle time, big squeezy hugs, heavy work, etc....but he has to ask for these things calmly...he has to intiate them approriately.

Other things that might really help you are a few books that really helped us. The Explosive Child, The Out of Sync Child, The Out of Sync Child Has Fun, and Dealing with Disappointment all have really helpful ideas and ways of looking at things.

I also agree with what CelticJourney is saying about the break and trying to find out if he can push you to not love him. That is a sad reality of adoption. These children have already experienced, far too often, that love isn't something you can assume will be.
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Old 10-27-2014, 05:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Temper tantrums

I want to come back to this to read when I have time.
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  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_end
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_start
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_end
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_start
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_end
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_start
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_end
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_start
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_end
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groan_bit_start
  • post_groan_function_show_groan_date_start
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groan_bit_end
  • post_groan_function_fetch_post_groan_template_start
  • post_groan_function_fetch_post_groan_template_end
  • reputation_image
  • postbit_imicons
  • bbcode_parse_start
  • bbcode_parse_complete_precache
  • bbcode_parse_complete
  • postbit_display_complete
  • error_fetch
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_start
  • post_thanks_function_show_thanks_date_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_end
  • tag_fetchbit_complete
  • forumrules
  • showthread_bookmarkbit
  • navbits
  • navbits_complete
  • showthread_complete