Has Dobson ever said... - Page 6

ArmsOfLove · 04-06-2011, 01:09 PM

Kathy, your imagery and word choice feels more like a tree--planted on a firm foundation that is growing up and out and producing fruit. I think that is a wonderful image for what we're discussing. I wouldn't call it hierarchy because the emphasis on hierarchy is about who is on top--your picture is more progressive and maturing over time. I like that image--it's hierarchy on its head

katiekind · 04-06-2011, 01:13 PM

Thanks! I have found it helpful when discussing this issue!

The upside down hierarchy is actually biblical. Jesus wanted us to catch onto that idea! He said he came to serve--not to be served--and to give his life as a ransom for many. He gave that vivid object lesson in the upper room, washing the disciples' feet. He told his disciples when they were squabbling about who would be greatest, that in God's kingdom, those who would be great, must serve.

Tasmanian Saint · 04-06-2011, 01:43 PM

Wow! there's been a lot happening in this thread the last few days! The discussion's been great, and I'm about to PM a couple of you to ask if I can quote you

all for your thoughts. I guess I'll have to get on with the post, even though I can't find a quote to start it off with

(I've been googling some of the key phrases and names from this thread, but can't find what I want

) Oh, well! I'll get started today

(Although H Linda's right, BarefootBetsy, you could write it if you want

)

Thanks again for all your thoughts!

Hermana Linda · 04-06-2011, 04:51 PM

Maybe you could collaborate and write it together.

BarefootBetsy · 04-06-2011, 05:02 PM

Well, I had already C&P'd my post from this thread and saved it as a draft on WP to refine for a post... I mostly want to talk about the false dichotomy

It actually came up before this thread turned into that direction because of the Sunday School class I'm taking right now. That idea seems to be pervasive... that if the children are taken care of well, the husband will suffer and I think that's just absolutely ridiculous!

I know! We could do a carnival sort of thing and each write a post about this topic from our own perspectives and plan to post them on the same day

What do you think, TS?

Or maybe it'd be better for me to go after your myth-busting post? I dunno... I could send mine to you once it's refined and then you can decide since it was your idea to begin with

04-06-2011, 05:10 PM

I do not think that taking good care of your husband will make your kids suffer nor do I think that taking good care of your kids makes your husband suffer...that is NOT what submission is. Submission does not mean you leave an infant baby crying because your husband wants a foot massage lol. Just using that as an example.

Hermana Linda · 04-06-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProudHooahWife

I do not think that taking good care of your husband will make your kids suffer nor do I think that taking good care of your kids makes your husband suffer...that is NOT what submission is. Submission does not mean you leave an infant baby crying because your husband wants a foot massage lol. Just using that as an example.

You are right.

But, unfortunately, not everyone out there agrees with you.

Aisling · 04-06-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProudHooahWife

I do not think that taking good care of your husband will make your kids suffer nor do I think that taking good care of your kids makes your husband suffer...that is NOT what submission is. Submission does not mean you leave an infant baby crying because your husband wants a foot massage lol. Just using that as an example.

I personally like to remember that in that same chapter of the "wives, submit" verse, the apostle Paul also admonishes that all in that church should submit to one another, out of reverence for Christ (gender not specified, as far as I can tell). We're reminded several times that in Christ, we are no longer male and female, and Christ himself teaches that to be great we must be the servant of all. If fathers have a right to do anything, it's to take up the basin and the towel and serve their familes with great humility. Same goes for every family member.

Unfortunately, this sort of servant leadership isn't why many Dobson followers take away from his (fuzzy intent at best) book. Teaching children a hierarchy of importance within the family is a worldly value, not at all in line with Christ's teaching, and shows Dobson's lack of understanding of grace and the gospel in general, in my opinion. This kind of "submission" smacks of worldly power and legalism.

BarefootBetsy · 04-06-2011, 06:59 PM

I have not yet found a verse in which men are exempted from submitting to other believers simply because those believers happen to be female

Housekat · 04-06-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarefootBetsy

I have not yet found a verse in which men are exempted from submitting to other believers simply because those believers happen to be female

Awesome. Just awesome. Thanks Betsy

Can I copy and paste to my facebook status? xx

Tasmanian Saint · 04-07-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

I know! We could do a carnival sort of thing and each write a post about this topic from our own perspectives and plan to post them on the same day

What do you think, TS?

Good idea

LMK when you've finished yours

BarefootBetsy · 04-07-2011, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Housekat

Awesome. Just awesome. Thanks Betsy

Can I copy and paste to my facebook status? xx

Absolutely!

04-06-2011, 01:09 PM	#76
ArmsOfLove Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 79,607	Re: Has Dobson ever said... Kathy, your imagery and word choice feels more like a tree--planted on a firm foundation that is growing up and out and producing fruit. I think that is a wonderful image for what we're discussing. I wouldn't call it hierarchy because the emphasis on hierarchy is about who is on top--your picture is more progressive and maturing over time. I like that image--it's hierarchy on its head __________________ Crystal "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." Maya Angelou

04-06-2011, 01:13 PM	#77
katiekind Deactivated Peace be with you. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: the sweet sunny south Posts: 15,346	Re: Has Dobson ever said... Thanks! I have found it helpful when discussing this issue! The upside down hierarchy is actually biblical. Jesus wanted us to catch onto that idea! He said he came to serve--not to be served--and to give his life as a ransom for many. He gave that vivid object lesson in the upper room, washing the disciples' feet. He told his disciples when they were squabbling about who would be greatest, that in God's kingdom, those who would be great, must serve. Last edited by katiekind; 04-06-2011 at 01:27 PM.

04-06-2011, 01:43 PM	#78
Tasmanian Saint Rose Trellis Go Team Lioness! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: This side of the black stump Posts: 2,428	Re: Has Dobson ever said... Wow! there's been a lot happening in this thread the last few days! The discussion's been great, and I'm about to PM a couple of you to ask if I can quote you all for your thoughts. I guess I'll have to get on with the post, even though I can't find a quote to start it off with (I've been googling some of the key phrases and names from this thread, but can't find what I want ) Oh, well! I'll get started today (Although H Linda's right, BarefootBetsy, you could write it if you want ) Thanks again for all your thoughts! __________________ Our blossoms: DS "Little Bear" Apr '07 - The negotiator DD "Miss Muffett" Nov '08 "Don't tell Daddy..." DS "Mouse" Jan '12 "I Soup Baby, Man of steel! " Myth Busting over at Dare to Disciple "Believe in yourself. Trust your instincts. Unless your instincts are terrible." Vitruvius, The LEGO Movie.

04-06-2011, 04:51 PM	#79
Hermana Linda Administrator "air-mannah Leen-dah" it means Sister Linda in Spanish Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 51,862	Re: Has Dobson ever said... Maybe you could collaborate and write it together. __________________ My pages: Why Not Train A Child? and the FB Page as well as @WhyNotTrain on Twitter Read about how my husband was Pulled From The River By God

04-06-2011, 05:02 PM	#80
BarefootBetsy Rose Garden "You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be." Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seeking Simplicity Posts: 12,684	Re: Has Dobson ever said... Well, I had already C&P'd my post from this thread and saved it as a draft on WP to refine for a post... I mostly want to talk about the false dichotomy It actually came up before this thread turned into that direction because of the Sunday School class I'm taking right now. That idea seems to be pervasive... that if the children are taken care of well, the husband will suffer and I think that's just absolutely ridiculous! I know! We could do a carnival sort of thing and each write a post about this topic from our own perspectives and plan to post them on the same day What do you think, TS? Or maybe it'd be better for me to go after your myth-busting post? I dunno... I could send mine to you once it's refined and then you can decide since it was your idea to begin with __________________ Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world.

04-06-2011, 05:10 PM	#81
ProudHooahWife Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Has Dobson ever said... I do not think that taking good care of your husband will make your kids suffer nor do I think that taking good care of your kids makes your husband suffer...that is NOT what submission is. Submission does not mean you leave an infant baby crying because your husband wants a foot massage lol. Just using that as an example.

04-06-2011, 06:59 PM	#84
BarefootBetsy Rose Garden "You are on the path...exactly where you are meant to be." Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seeking Simplicity Posts: 12,684	Re: Has Dobson ever said... I have not yet found a verse in which men are exempted from submitting to other believers simply because those believers happen to be female __________________ Barefooting through life with dh (2003), dd1 (11/05), dd2 (7/07), dd3 (11/09), and ds (8/13). Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any views or opinions presented in the above posts are solely those of BarefootBetsy, the GCM member, and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of anyone else in the entire world.

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