Has Dobson ever said...

[Wonder Woman]

a) we don't flame people here
b) Crystal is very used to people not believing that her calling and ministry from God is legitimate because of the gender He created her to be (although if I'm wrong about that, feel free to correct my assumption on here - I don't do random friending on FB )

[BarefootBetsy]

To be perfectly honest, I don't even see how questioning Crystal's calling would even come into this... plenty of Christian women have written books about marriage and child-rearing without their words being scrutinized before even being read. Aren't "older" women supposed to be teaching younger women how to love their husbands and care for their children?

It's a parenting book. It's not a book of sermons - it's a book of Biblical teaching (IMO) to "younger" women who have been parents for less time than she has.

Even if one believes that women should not teach men, this book is clearly (again, IMO) a book geared towards mothers and if you don't want Crystal teaching your dh, then don't give him the book to read My dh wouldn't have a problem reading it, but he hasn't had the time. We've discussed many of the ideas from Crystal's book and implemented many of her ideas, but I was the one being taught because I was the one with the time and inclination to read it.

Anyhow, that's just my 2 cents - no flames, just what I think about that particular reason (which may or may not be PHW's reason in the first place!)

[BlessedBlue]

Originally Posted by ProudHooahWife

... but where do you get Biblically that it should be a circle and that your husband should be as close to you and your children as he is to God? Can you please provide scripture for that?

Wonder Woman didn't make any shoulds, that I can see. She was stating that it is possible for all members of the family to be as close to God as each other. That we are all on equal standing with each other before God.

And, really, why would we want to keep our children an arm's length away from God? Or stand in the way of their relationship with Him?

[rjy9343]

I would like to interject something that has more or less jelled enough for me to share it. Rather than seeing a triangle, circle or totem pole I see my family as coming in second, meaning I see my family as a unit more than individuals who have a place or pecking order. Some times DH needs something now, some times DD needs something now and some time I need something now. Whoever is best able to meet that need is the one that does it. Sometimes DH gets more than anyone else, sometimes it's me or our daughter that gets the bulk of the attention. I have heard that elevating the children is bad for them. But what does that look like? Is it cosleeping? Is it wearing them? Taking them on anniversary trips? Is it having date nights at home so that you don't leave them? Some might even argue that ecing does that because you have to spend so much more time with the baby and you neglect your husband. (Yes I really did hear that, but it was because my husband was too wierded out by it that we don't do it, not that). Many argue that the whole ap philosophy does this. So I guess the point to my second thought is how do you decide what elevation even looks like, much less how it effects your family.

[Wonder Woman]

that's why the circle analogy works for me Because if God is the focus, that frees us all to move around the circle as necessary to meet the needs of the family.
When my son was nursing 35+ times a day (a very real need due to the traumatic pregnancy, induced birth, and my medical problems that meant I fought for every drop of milk he got) my husband was nowhere on my radar as far as meeting his needs went
But since he's a grown man, and loves his family sacrificially, he was right there beside me supporting me, meeting my needs, and meeting every need of our son that didn't involve breastmilk The family was *very* child focused at that moment. As our son's needs changed, so have the family dynamics

[BarefootBetsy]

Yes, I've also (just in the last week) started to think of my family as a unit. The Bible is very clear that there is no male or female at the foot of the cross. My dh and I are (by my interpretation) to be one flesh, raising our children and teaching them in the ways of God; taking care of, loving, and submitting to each other; and helping everyone in the family while following and giving honor to God.

[CelticJourney]

To avoid making a super long quote I will simply reference the scripture mentioned.

When we are told to we are to love God more than 'our wife (husband)' it is NOT establishing a hierarcy. The author is taking the most predominate (because you can have a spouse and NOT have children) and using it as a 'place holder' - predominate does not mean priority, but frequency. I am to love God more than my husband, children, parents, siblings, etc. The Gospel is telling us a beautiful big picture - to have make a hierarctical listing of world based relationships or things would have been hugely legalistic and fly in the face of the servent hearted leadership and care of the 'least of these' that Jesus very directly spoke about. Beyond that I simply CAN'T imagine Jesus telling people to put children last. No, He says "Suffer the little children and let them come, for SUCH is the kingdom of heaven" Interpreting this philosophy of hierarchy from the foot of the Cross makes accepting it impossible for me.

We have so many threads on Wife Only Submission that I'm really not prepared to go into that right now (fighting a sinus infection and preserving some energy). If you read in the Theology Forum, there is one saved at the top.

As for authorships. Anyone is perfectly free to pick and choose who they are willing to learn from - Titus 2 directive or not. I will say that in the case of Crystal Lutton, they would be denying themself a true blessing.

[ArmsOfLove]

I realize you might not read my post (it really is insulting to talk about someone like they aren't in the room and then to offer to gossip more about them if people contact you privately )

But what about in the Greek in Ephesians 5 where it says "wives to your husbands as to the Lord"

Jesus is absolutely to be our first love--in fact, in Luke he tells us

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

Hebraically this means we are to prefer and value Him more, not to actually hate the others (since that would violate the command for US to honor our father and mother--that verse isn't written to little children it's written to the grown ones reading it--US), but literally . . .

The two greatest commands, according to Jesus, are to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and "the second is like unto it" (meaning it's also the greatest command--just the other part of it) to love your neighbor as yourself. The more you love God the more you love yourself and your neighbor and the more you love God. Maybe the problem is trying to put any geometric form to it--it's a symbiotic relationship. You cannot honestly do one without the other.

And we all stand equal at the foot of the cross--we all approach God with one mediator--Jesus.

deleted this

[Six Little Feet]

Whoah!! Slow down. You are being very rude and argumentative. We do not talk this way around here. I do not think bringing up why some people have chosen to leave GCM has any relevance. People come and go. That is life. If a person does not like it here then probably it is best they do go.

[ArmsOfLove]

Originally Posted by ProudHooahWife

Crystal I am friends with Annie in real life THAT is why I mentioned speaking to her private. The responses to this post are exactly why you have had people leaving this board this week. I am NOT gossiping about you. If you would like I can copy the PM I sent to Annie on facebook if it will re assure you, I can post it I am not ashamed and would speak to you directly about it.

If you want to talk more you need to pm me to discuss this. This thread isn't the appropriate place for the comments you are posting that are not on topic.

Relationships aren't math or geometry. We don't set out to love our husbands at a measurement of 10, our children at 9, our neighbor at 8 and the poor at a 5. The aim is to love all perfectly.

[Hermana Linda]

I understand the relationship like this. God is supreme, that is very clear. We are to hold others as more important than ourselves. That includes our children and everyone else. Our spouse is one flesh with us, so that would mean that we (spouse and self) are to put the children ahead of our own needs, keeping God first. Of course, everyone has the same relationship, keeping God first and others more important than self (spouse equal to self if applicable.) So, making the spouse more important than children does not make sense to me.

[rjy9343]

I honestly think that if we just put God first and really seek to honor him, then it is my experience that the rest falls into place and all this who is more important stuff becomes irrelevant.

[katiekind]

If I see my relationships in a hierarchy (which I think is not a terrible bad unscriptural thing) it would be something like this

Relationship with God---> when this is in good shape, the rest of my relationships will benefit. Ministry will flow. It is a foundation for the rest of life.

Husband/wife/marriage relationship ---> when this is in good shape, it provides a fertile foundation for family and ministry together.

Children / ministry / art / music / work / etc..... the beautiful fruit of the strong & healthy foundations of my relationship with God and my relationship with my husband.

In other words, for me, the word "priority relationship" could be replaced with "foundational relationship" which makes it a little clearer that the relationship is created for fruitful service, and that there is no competition, nor idolatry. A foundation serves what is built upon it, and I think that is very Christlike. And of course if the foundation is weak and crumbling, it does need to be shored up. But one need not be separated from one's baby or needy toddler in order to tend to the marriage relationship.

ETA: And switching the terminology to 'foundational' helps keep our focus on the fact that our marriage is FOR something. Our relationship with God is FOR something. (Both, of course, are beautiful in and of themselves. But they are also FOR something.)