Group situation--everyone pro-CIO--what do you say?

Looks like all my Christian mama friends do/did CIO. I was at our mothers group yesterday and there was a new mama I'd never met before there, with her sweet 15-week-old boy. He apparently sleeps way too little--tiny naps, hard to nap, wakes all the time, etc. Very normal for a 15-week-old except for the fact that his total sleep over the course of a day did sound like too little.

Anyway, she was at night 9 of Ferberizing. He's crying for 45 minutes. It just broke my heart to hear it. She seemed miserably sleep-deprived, of course, and remembering those times I know how hard it is. She was questioning whether he was too young for it, and one or two of the other mamas seemed to think he might be. But mostly there was an air of encouraging her to stick it out, and the other mamas shared stories of their CIO journeys.

I felt completely like the odd woman out, but did make sure to say that we never did ANY sleep training other than a few ideas from NCSS, like a bedtime routine and such, and that my 16-month-old now STTN. Which the 15-week-old's mama did seem to find encouraging. For most of these mamas, the deed is already done--their kids have been through the CIO. But this 15-week-old, the poor sweet thing. In a group dynamic like that, I feel so intimidated but was glad I at least said what I did.

I just wish I could do more, say more, something. And I wish I knew at least one other gentle Christian mama in real life.

I couldn't think of any way to say what I believe CIO does without sounding like Judgy McJudgerson, you know? And that's the last thing a sleep-deprived new mama needs. What do you say in situations like this?

[Yuliana]

I am pretty sure I wouldn't have done the right thing

[ViolaMum]

I read Ferber over a yea ago, so I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure 15 weeks is WAAAY younger than Ferber recommends. I know he suggests night weaning at 6 months, so I *think* that he doesn't start CIO until then.

While I like to think I'd have some constructive, graceful response, I probably wouldn't have said the right thing either. Non-mainstream ides are not something you can convince a stranger of in a group setting where you are the lone dissenting voice.

[newday]

If you have the resources maybe you could purchase the "No Cry Sleep Solution" for her.
Sometimes one needs to be away from the pressure of others to process information properly. Maybe she would be willing to learn new ideas in the quiet of her home, away from the influence of others.
And then pray that God would touch her heart.

(I wish I could talk with some moms and let them know the negative issues that came up in my daughter's life because of my following the Ezzo's information... it is truly heartbreaking to look back and see that there are security problems and control issues that could have been avoided if I had sought Godly counsel, or just God's heart.Not to mention the work God would have been able to do in my own life that we are only "just" getting to right now - after the third baby!)

[mollobe]

I think it's great that you said what you did - I tend to keep my mouth shut at my mom's group because I'm too intimidated by people. I think next time you see her you should pull her aside and ask her how it's going. If she's still having a difficult time, then offer more advice without the other moms around to intimidate you. Just be very loving, understanding, and empathetic. Maybe offer to buy her a cup of coffee later so you can have more time to chat. Who knows, maybe you'll create a good friend and ally eventually!

[CelticJourney]

You did well by speaking up at all - you gave her an alternate option to consider. I will say, now that my 'play group' days are well behind me, get togethers like that can be a blessing or a burden - and it can change in a heartbeat. You walk a delicate line between offending someone who just pronounced the wonders of some tactic you find damaging, on the other hand, you don't want a new mom to think she is all alone. Good luck with that. I think you found a very diplomatic way to handle 'the line'.

You spoke up quite perfectly! Just offering another opinion was a great start. I am not intimidated by any means, but I do select when I say something and when I don't. For example, last week our administrator was going on and on about how much he enjoyed "Prepared for Parenting." I didn't feel the need to voice my opinion because 1) I know he is set in his way and 2) I wasn't in the mood to argue with him. Plus, he already knows we cosleep until age 2, so highly doubt he thinks I allow my kids to CIO. I did comment that I really despise Ezzo, but he didn't say much. Now, if a mom asks me for my opinion or for advice, I will certainly offer it. I just don't feel like I need others to agree with me because I know what I am doing is right.

[MissusLeata]

How about suggesting a book that has a more gentle approach? Maybe the 'No Cry Sleep Solution' or something like "Nighttime Parenting" by Dr. Sears?

I was thinking I would speak to her after the playgroup, alone, and suggest a good book to her and let her know that I remember what it's like to have such a little one so if she needs to talk just let me know.

I like the idea someone gave of asking her to have coffee with you. She might be in need of a friend! I know I would have loved if someone had asked me to have coffee or lunch when my first baby was that little.

[ArmsOfLove]

Well I tend to take the direct and scientific approach and say "Studies have shown that a baby crying for 20 minutes alone causes stress levels of an adult having a stroke. I would never be able to do that to my child. And even Ferber regretted what has been done with his ideas."

[saturnfire16]

I would have gone with "wow, that sounds so hard and you seem so exhausted! I always found it so easy to just sleep with my babies. They wake up, I pop them on the boob and go back to sleep. I can't imagine actually getting up at night or letting my baby cry." I have actually said this exact thing several times. I keep it light and friendly and try to stick to *my personal experience.*

Thanks for all the thoughts and replies! Unfortunately, I won't likely have a chance to take her aside or ask her to coffee because we get a ride with one of the other moms, and have to leave a bit early with her. I'll keep an eye out for any opportunity though. I was kind of wishing I'd plugged co-sleeping; if she's there and still having trouble next time I'll mention that as something that helped me through. And I'll put my copy of NCSS in my bag to offer to lend, if she seems open to it.

Can anyone point me in the direction of the studies that show the high stress levels of crying alone? I looked in the Unprepared for Parenting resources thread but didn't see anything there (admittedly only had time to skim ).

[Yuliana]

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/handout2.asp

[AmyDoll]

Originally Posted by saturnfire16

I would have gone with "wow, that sounds so hard and you seem so exhausted! I always found it so easy to just sleep with my babies. They wake up, I pop them on the boob and go back to sleep. I can't imagine actually getting up at night or letting my baby cry." I have actually said this exact thing several times. I keep it light and friendly and try to stick to *my personal experience.*

This is what I sound like. Only I don't say boob . A little empathy & a little personal experience.

[RealLifeMama]

Originally Posted by ViolaMum

I read Ferber over a yea ago, so I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure 15 weeks is WAAAY younger than Ferber recommends. I know he suggests night weaning at 6 months, so I *think* that he doesn't start CIO until then.

He also would say that 9 nights of crying for 45 minutes is not what he had in mind.