That Dobson quote about the dog is in post 13

[deena]

Yeah, I got it. I should update the OP.
I forgot about that shoulder pinching advice.

[everydaygrace]

My parents were Dobson fans. Got the mag and everything. I used to support spanking, but that was long before I had kids. I've never read anything by Dobson, and I'm thankful for that. But the excerpts you all are mentioning are awful. I just can't believe so many read this and don't see a problem with it. I would have been among them at one point in time.

[solatido]

I thought Dobson was great too... before actually having kids. Between GCM and another message board, I've changed my mind. I actually wrote on my app for here that I wasn't sure about the spanking thing, but that I was open to reading more about alternatives. Well, I'm sure now- sure about NOT spanking!!

[ViolaMum]

I grew up in a church family and with extended family that held Dobson in high esteem. I thought he was great without actually knowing what he taught. When I finally sat down to read his books, I had a huge moment realizing that the people I knew growing up that held to his authoritarian, adversarial views were people that I instinctively avoided, thoroughly disliked, or just outright hated.

[SweetCaroline]

oh gross. he whipped his dog with a belt? hmm. very revealing.

[Johns_Gal]

I hope Siggie peed in his cereal every morning the rest of the little doggie's life.

Wow. I knew the guy was rotten to children, but animals too... he really does have some serious issues. No wonder he describes all his pets the way he does, they live with a madman who likes to bully things smaller than he is.

Oh no wait. I want Siggie to come back as a Mastiff or a pitt or something. Take a belt to THAT, coward.

[jenny_islander]

Originally Posted by joysworld

On page 80 of 'The New Dare to Discipline', it talks about his dog Siggy, but he is talking about the law of reinforcement. I've gone through the whole book of TNDTD, and the story of winning at all costs with his dog is not in it. Before I came, the library had Strong Willed Child here, but I got here, and it was checked out.

I did google, and found this. So, it's in The Strong Willed Child, I just don't have access to it at the moment.

"Please don't misunderstand me. Siggie is a member of our family and we love him dearly. And despite his anarchistic nature, I have finally taught him to obey a few simple commands. However, we had some classic battles before he reluctantly yielded to my authority.

"The greatest confrontation occurred a few years ago when I had been in Miami for a three-day conference. I returned to observe that Siggie had become boss of the house while I was gone. But I didn't realize until later that evening just how strongly he felt about his new position as Captain.

"At eleven o'clock that night, I told Siggie to go get into his bed, which is a permanent enclosure in the family room. For six years I had given him that order at the end of each day, and for six years Siggie had obeyed."
-- The Strong Willed Child


http://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/servlet...1&excerpt=true

I would like to emphasize, for any lurkers here who may be on the fence about Dobson, that he knows nothing about dogs.

1. The dog did not become "boss of the house" while Dobson was away. The dog accepted Mrs. Dobson as his leader and master. Note that the dog hid behind her. The dog's behavior toward Dobson is the behavior of a dog who is challenged by another dog for his position. The dog thought of himself and Dobson as subordinate to the real leader of the pack--the person who actually ran the place instead of barking incomprehensible orders (see below) and charging around with a belt. Also note that dogs who keep fighting back against a dominance display either recognize that the other dog is full of hot air, or else they think the other dog means to kill them and therefore they must fight for their lives. But Dobson sees all interactions as either reinforcements of his power, or attempts to challenge his power--even when the other party is frightened of him. This is one of the main objections many of us have to child training.

2. So the dog didn't learn tricks for a long time because of his "anarchistic nature?" Somehow I think this has more to do with Dobson's unexamined inability to train a dog. Based on the above anecdote about the belt, I suspect that he followed the typical mindset of child training methods: if at first you don't succeed, don't reconsider your methods, just do it more and harder. And we have this story to explain further how well Dobson understands the "nature" of others:

3. How was the dog supposed to understand the word "attack" out of the blue? Dobson doesn't mention training this twelve-pound, short-legged animal as an attack dog. I repeat, this was a twelve-pound animal who had not received any training in attacking strangers that Dobson mentions. He was confronted with a big stranger rummaging around in the dark, the Belt Man was doing his angry gibberish thing, and he was supposed to charge into combat why, exactly? Ascribing to the subjects of training capabilities they simply don't have is a third hallmark of child training. Understanding ages and stages is commonly dismissed as "science" or "psychology" when it is simply common sense backed up by observation.

Dobson cites his treatment of this poor dog as evidence that he understands the role of authority in daily life.

Dobson also mentions that his cats at the time were neurotic.

[gpsings]

<<<<< *Thinks PETA should get a copy of this*

[Damselfly]

Originally Posted by jandjmommy

I think that's the one with the intentionally extremely painful shoulder pinch advice too.

So that's where my mom got that. I still have issues with people touching my neck or shoulder near my neck because of that.

[charla]

Can anyone tell me why he includes the phrase that he was embarrassed about what happened with the dog? It seemed pretty off kilter comment with the authoritarian voice he wants to present, almost an admission of a crack in his armor...unless I'm reading it wrongly.

[Johns_Gal]

Charla, I imagine he was embarrassed that his Manly Manhood was challenged by something so small and insignificant in the first place. He should have made sure to always rule the tiny doxie with an iron fist from the beginning, you know. As the Man of the House and all.

[Damselfly]

Originally Posted by Johns_Gal

Charla, I imagine he was embarrassed that his Manly Manhood was challenged by something so small and insignificant in the first place. He should have made sure to always rule the tiny doxie with an iron fist from the beginning, you know. As the Man of the House and all.

That sounds likely.

[jenny_islander]

Originally Posted by Johns_Gal

Charla, I imagine he was embarrassed that his Manly Manhood was challenged by something so small and insignificant in the first place. He should have made sure to always rule the tiny doxie with an iron fist from the beginning, you know. As the Man of the House and all.

As long as we're examining Dobson's conflation of dogs and children, let's go over how a capable dog owner would have established himself as the boss.

1. Provide food, shelter, and water, consistently. The leader cares for his subordinates' physical needs. Dog leadership grows out of dog parenting; the puppy has to show proper manners, but he can count on being looked after. To a dog, this is unconditional love.

2. Be a confident leader. Never behave as though you are worried about your authority being overthrown. The boss dog is calm, authoritative, and assured and he doesn't need to go around inventing reasons to demand submissive displays from other dogs. If he starts trying to put other dogs down, he's slipping.

3. Don't confuse and frighten your subordinates. Keep your requests simple and your expectations achievable. The frustrated, angry boss dog is perceived as lacking authority and this means that one of the other dogs has to step up and fill the role, because there has to be a boss for everyone to feel secure.

4. Discipline immediately, briefly, and only as much as needed to get your point across. Throwing other dogs on their backs is something boss dogs do when the pack structure is threatening to come apart, generally because the leader already messed up. Most of the time, boss dogs discipline like mom dogs. Mom dog's basic tool is a stern body posture and a woof. Physically stopping misbehavior is another tool in the mom dog's toolchest.

If Dobson had really been Siggie's master, Siggie would've been down off that soft place in a flash, jumping around his ankles, going "Bossbossbossboss you're HOME! You're HOME!" and probably heading for the treat canister.

[Cherish]

Makes me soooo ill. Men like that make me want to forsake my commitment to treat all people gently, a part of me would be glad to make an exception for them!

[charla]

Originally Posted by Johns_Gal

Charla, I imagine he was embarrassed that his Manly Manhood was challenged by something so small and insignificant in the first place. He should have made sure to always rule the tiny doxie with an iron fist from the beginning, you know. As the Man of the House and all.

I don't want it to be that. But I suppose you're right.