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Old 03-20-2010, 08:40 AM   #1
Treenahurricane
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Default Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

My cousin who is a missionary in a nondenominational church recommended the site to me, and I'm not sure by looking at their site but I get a weird vibe. Is it gentle or is it rooted in the quiverful movement?
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

Above Rubies is extremely QF and I would recommend you stay far away from them and the poisonous ideas they put out there. It was thinking like theirs that influenced me so much and brought my family to the brink.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

If anyone is more familiar, could you give me some concerns and scriptural reasons why they are dangerous? He said he doesn't agree 100% with their teachings but I don't know which teachings he doesn't agree with. He said that the site references their church as a ministry. I replied back that I've been blessed with this site greatly. He and his wife have a baby about a month old, though, and I would like to share with them why I disagree with the quiverful movement but I don't know as much about them as I do many other teachers.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:00 AM   #4
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

If you read their website it's very revealing. http://aboverubies .org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=290:f amily-life--disciplining-gods-way&catid=36&Itemid=60
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Old 03-20-2010, 12:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

See, I don't think Above Rubies is that terrible. Yes, there are pieces that I disagree with strongly but some of it is good stuff. I'm not conservative by any means and I really enjoyed The Power Of Motherhood.
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

I still get the Above Rubies free magazine. I have been getting it for about 7-8 years I think.

I think it has helped with my healing, coming out of the Gothard-QF movement.

Yes, when I first started getting it, I was reading it as if it were the bible. These ladies seem to have it all together 24/7. Nancy and her dd's commune is in TN. There retreat is actually coming up. All mamas and their babies are welcome. I was invited to go one year, but never did. Anyone ever been to one?

They are all for BF'ing long term. Eating only whole foods, having as many Dc as you can etc. I suppose if you are able to spit and chew, then why not.

That said, This months issue...I just got it last week. Nancys article is all about punitive parenting. She went on and on, about spanking, using the Proverbs text for back-up if I am recalling.

I am not sure if you can read all the articles online or not. I do not go to their homepage anymore. But if you can. I would suggest reading some of Nanys stuff, to get a better idea on their beliefs.
 
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberated4Christ View Post
I still get the Above Rubies free magazine. I have been getting it for about 7-8 years I think.

I think it has helped with my healing, coming out of the Gothard-QF movement.

Yes, when I first started getting it, I was reading it as if it were the bible. These ladies seem to have it all together 24/7. Nancy and her dd's commune is in TN. There retreat is actually coming up. All mamas and their babies are welcome. I was invited to go one year, but never did. Anyone ever been to one?

They are all for BF'ing long term. Eating only whole foods, having as many Dc as you can etc. I suppose if you are able to spit and chew, then why not.

That said, This months issue...I just got it last week. Nancys article is all about punitive parenting. She went on and on, about spanking, using the Proverbs text for back-up if I am recalling.

I am not sure if you can read all the articles online or not. I do not go to their homepage anymore. But if you can. I would suggest reading some of Nanys stuff, to get a better idea on their beliefs.
This is my experience as well. They DO HAVE a quiverfull mindset that I personally find very refreshing since my husband and I are spacing naturally, but not "preventing" children. I LOVE the pro-bf'ing, natural health and wellness, etc.

I missed the latest magazine and didn't see the article. I'm subscribed to the yahoo group email list and generally enjoy skimming through the posts.

Definitely some anti-gothard/gothard-recovering folks on the list who would be not-happy to have the two equated. LOL!

Angela <><
 
Old 03-20-2010, 02:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

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Originally Posted by AngEngland View Post
This is my experience as well. They DO HAVE a quiverfull mindset that I personally find very refreshing since my husband and I are spacing naturally, but not "preventing" children. I LOVE the pro-bf'ing, natural health and wellness, etc.

I missed the latest magazine and didn't see the article. I'm subscribed to the yahoo group email list and generally enjoy skimming through the posts.

Definitely some anti-gothard/gothard-recovering folks on the list who would be not-happy to have the two equated. LOL!

Angela <><

Angela!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember you on the AR yahoo group. I thought you lived in VA. though. I think we talked before. I know I spent many days praying for you. Do you still have your blog?

I use to be on that group a couple years ago. I shared my expirence with the Gothard/QF movement during that time there. I seem to recall several folks not seeing anything wrong with Gothard though, and grew up with his teachings.
 
Old 03-20-2010, 02:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

We know the Campbell family very well, (Mrs. Campbell is the editress of the magazine) and my daughter has just returned from living with them as a helper for 6 weeks - she had a blast, and I was the leader of The Power of Motherhood e-group for about five years.

They are definately NOT gothardites, and although they encourage people to have many children in the sense that children are wonderful blessings and gifts from God, they are not hardcore quiverfull, and if you have read The Power of Motherhood, Nancy does have a section where she understands that there may be times in your marriage/faith that you just do not feel able to have another child, and encourages couples to use non-chemical forms of birth control in these situations. Nancy has written the book "Be Fruitful and Multiply" so yes, she definately promotes being quiverfull, but there are also many on this board who believe in giving control of their wombs to God.

They are very PRO attachment parenting, co-sleeping, extended breastfeeding, natural/whole foods, natural living, etc. They are pro-wifely submission, but again many on this group are also. From Nancy's own words, even though our husbands may have the final word, we as wives are VERY influential, and she does not expect women to be silent. Nancy, herself is FAR from a silent, doormat wife.

The only thing that they would probably have in the magazine that is not in agreement with gentle parenting is that they are not against spanking, although this is not a major theme in their magazines, although it does come up from time to time, and you can choose to disagree, the Campbells are not afraid of disagreement, and they are wonderful examples of being able to lovingly disagree.

They are definately not hardcore conservatives, their sons are the managers of the Newsboys, and before retiring as a pastor, Mr Campbell co-pastored a church with Michael W. Smith. They do NOT live in commune. Their daughters each live nearby but they have their own homes and separate lives, while their sons live in the general area. Each daughter has their own unique flavour in their home, and each lives in their own way, completely differently than the others. Although the Campbells themselves are non-denominational with a pentecostal leaning the magazines are compilations of articles that many women of various denominations submit and are directed towards encouraging wives and mothers.

Hopefully that helps anyone interested in knowing what Above Rubies is all about .
 
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

From what I've gathered around here, the message of Above Rubies the magazine and the message of the website and the conferences are often different.

The magazine focuses on encouraging stories of motherhood and marriage, but it sounds to me like the website and conferences focus more on (punitive) discipline and some pretty conservative views on wife only submission in marriage . . . I don't know. I have never been to a conference, but I don't like what I have read on the website. This most recent issue of the magazine had some unsettling opinions on marriage.

ETA: Wanted to clarify for newer members - not *everyone* here is opposed to wife only submission, and normally the articles I've read in there on marriage were uplifting to me. There were just a couple of articles in this most recent issue made some statements about wives staying marriages where the husband is addicted to harmful things or is unfaithful that were just upsetting to me. And I come from a VERY conservative understanding of these things. It was upsetting enough for me to email and asked to be removed from the mailing list.

There are women here who have been encouraged by the positive messages about mothering and the welcome support for natural living practices. You'll find mixed opinions on the topic here, for sure!
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:17 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpeasmommy View Post
If you read their website it's very revealing. http://aboverubies .org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=290:f amily-life--disciplining-gods-way&catid=36&Itemid=60
ooooh... bleh...
he really just said that spanking isn't hitting.... :headscratch
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

Re: hg and infertility being labelled 'sin'.

I suppose IME EVERYONE has false teachings. I have been to a place where I have been so disillusioned with Christianity, the only thing that has kept me going in Jesus himself. I completely understand your feelings, and admire your confidence and conviction in who you are in Christ :-D

I have been told I was not healed because I didn't have faith. That maybe it was all in my mind, and have had ppl look at me suspiciously implying it may be that I need deliverance, and have had various people suggest I try deliverance ministry.

So yeah, completely understand your desire to go YUCK! And to tell you the truth, I constantly put myself in situations where I am vulnerable because of the 'some truths' that I might glean there. Just this last week I commented on a christian forum about spanking and got attacked about my stance. This has left me positively confused about what I believe in.

It is so hard when someone says so many good things, but so many bad things it can be hard to decipher which is which. But I feel like I have no choice, in Christianity it can be a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils when it comes to choosing which teachings you listen to.
 
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boobymummy View Post

I suppose IME EVERYONE has false teachings. I have been to a place where I have been so disillusioned with Christianity, the only thing that has kept me going in Jesus himself. I completely understand your feelings, and admire your confidence and conviction in who you are in Christ :-D

It is so hard when someone says so many good things, but so many bad things it can be hard to decipher which is which. But I feel like I have no choice, in Christianity it can be a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils when it comes to choosing which teachings you listen to.
Yes, we all have false doctrine that we all subscribe to. We might be wrong on this bit of theology, or that bit of theology and we might share that false doctrine with others in a teaching capacity. Having a few things that are false teachings and false doctrines are not the things that make you a false teacher. I know women on this board who I respect in an amazing way in the theological arena who have probably held doctrine that is not exactly what God means with scripture and have taught that. It does not mean they are false teachers.

False teachers often have ministries that are lovely. But what makes a false teacher is not one or two off things, but rather dozens and dozens that are the pillars of their ministry. Nobody can deny that Nancy Campbell focuses a HUGE amount of her ministry to wife only submission. And not any moderated form, but rather the type that would make women follow their husband into sin if he asked her to. That is a huge false teaching that is foundational to her ministry. Nobody can deny that adoption is a huge part of her ministry, but her views on adoption are in opposition to scripture. Nobody can deny that a huge part of her ministry is natural living and childbirth, but at the same time she has a warped twisted view of women who have had cancer and had histochemistry or who are infertile as completely sinful. She believes in natural gentle raising of children, but also believes in spanking them if they don't obey the first time and that depravity is to be spanked away.

Nancy Campbell becomes a false teacher when you can take almost any core concept of her ministry and find false doctrine there. With false teachers it becomes incredibly dangerous to glean the "positive" from their ministries. While there may be beautiful stories that are the epitomize of Jesus's heart, the overall message under those beautiful stories are false. So those beautiful stories lure you in, and then from there you get to the dark underbelly.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

Thanks erin, i have been really struggling with this, as they present such a perfect idealistic front.
 
Old 03-21-2010, 11:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?

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If you read their website it's very revealing. http://aboverubies .org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=290:f amily-life--disciplining-gods-way&catid=36&Itemid=60
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