That Dobson quote about the dog is in post 13

[nadezhda]

My mom recommended the shoulder-pinching to me a couple days ago. I'd totally forgotten it's associated w/Dobson. (Well, it's not spanking....)

Afa the dog scenario goes, I remember when reading the book going "He's allowing his dog's behavior to make him feel emasculated?!?"

[Virginia]

Originally Posted by Jadeswan

So that's where my mom got that. I still have issues with people touching my neck or shoulder near my neck because of that.

Me too.
My mom used to do the shoulder pinch thing. And then we kids (me, my brother, and my sister) started doing it to each other

I still have issues with people touching my shoulders. DH has to be really careful when he's rubbing my shoulders/back

[deena]

Thank you JennieIslander for that dog training analysis. I know little to nothing about it but I'm very interested. I love dogs. And it also helps us understand where his discipline methods go wrong.

[Synesthesia]

He would have not tried that with a rottweiller. If it's a tiny dog, why the heck didn't he just pick up the dog and put it where he wanted it to go? Why use a belt and all of that jazz? These folks just use these big, explosive silly methods when a simple gentle one will do.

[SweetCaroline]

Originally Posted by Synesthesia

He would have not tried that with a rottweiller. If it's a tiny dog, why the heck didn't he just pick up the dog and put it where he wanted it to go? Why use a belt and all of that jazz? These folks just use these big, explosive silly methods when a simple gentle one will do.

its the whole mentality: the same people who spank a 2 yr old for saying "no!" to them.

[Synesthesia]

Hate! That sort of thing must stop. It's like you're shrinking to the level of a two year old or a tiny dog while trying to assert your adult hood or master ship of a small dog which is so STUPID.

[Scox2003]

So many pro-spankers equate child-rearing with animal training. I don't even believe in hitting my animals let alone children. Our cat recently bit an electrical wire and got shocked. It really upset my hubby & me. Thankfully, she's ok but she was terrified of the hall and even now she still looks at the door with the fan in it like, "Why did you hurt me?" It's heartbreaking. I'll be writing an article about it soon.

[Wonder Woman]

Just FTR...my husband is in law enforcement. They were taught that shoulder-pinching move, just slightly modified, to control a suspect who is combative and threatening.

If he were to use it at work, he'd have to fill out reams of paperwork justifying his use of that kind of force.

But, you know, if you do it in God's name it's apparently different

[bliss]

The Dobson shoulder pinch

When I am reminded of some of these quotes from him, it mostly saddens me that my mom was so locked in to doing what her church (peer group) was doing that she accepted his methods and didn't even balk at some of these things. My mom is a kind, gentle, vegan PETA member, who swallowed this crap hook line and sinker because it as sold to her as 'the Christian way to do it'.
I wish my mom *now*, who has lost that need to conform and do what everyone else says is a good idea, could have parented me in my childhood. I guess all that leaves is the gratitude I have that I've never been like that, and if something seems wrong to me it doesn't matter if a million women point at me and say 'you have to do it this way', I will in their collective faces and do what I know is right.

[rjy9343]

But here is the thing about animal training, most people do not hit animals to train them because they become too fearful to train. Most people that train believe that animals are too sensitive to use harsh methods.
But these same people think nothing of swatting a toddler for whatever reason.

[tnaallen]

Originally Posted by rjy9343

But here is the thing about animal training, most people do not hit animals to train them because they become too fearful to train. Most people that train believe that animals are too sensitive to use harsh methods.
But these same people think nothing of swatting a toddler for whatever reason.

I was also thinking about how hurting animals can make them mean too, therefore having them turn on you and bite you. When all my kids are toddlers they go through a phase of hitting the dog, and I always remind them they have to be kind to animals and as they grow older explain that it can make our doggy upset and mean, then we can't keep him. So that is completely counter to Dobson's idea of "Spanking won't lead to children hitting" if he's using animals as his comparison to children.

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by tnaallen

I was also thinking about how hurting animals can make them mean too, therefore having them turn on you and bite you. When all my kids are toddlers they go through a phase of hitting the dog, and I always remind them they have to be kind to animals and as they grow older explain that it can make our doggy upset and mean, then we can't keep him. So that is completely counter to Dobson's idea of "Spanking won't lead to children hitting" if he's using animals as his comparison to children.

That is an excellent point that I completely forgot. My mother bred and showed dogs when I was a kid, so I heard a lot about how sensitive they were and how you had to be gentle with them. Kids not so much.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------

The other thing (and this where my head explodes and I lose my ever loving mind) is that I have been told that kids don't remember getting hit. They don't have the attention span or memory of it, so it does not damage the relationship and this is why it does not lead to hitting or other violent behavior. Nobody has ever been able to explain how this is not abuse or how it works if the child cannot even remember it. ullhair

[Findabhair]

My Dad was big on yanking me by my ear and grabbing me by the elbow where a person would have blood drawn and kind of twist and it always hurt a lot. Are either of those Dobson related things? I also have a thing with my neck (I don't like people touching it) but I don't recall being pinched there ever. I'm incredibly afraid of being strangled though. . .but again don't recall ever being strangled.

[rjy9343]

I think the neck and strangulation thing comes from being handled roughly. I cannot remember being touched on my neck, but as soon as someone touches it (like say the chiropractor) I am ready to run as far as I can as fast as I can. I think it is just that environment that keeps you afraid and makes it really hard to tell good touches from bad touches. I don't care what anyone says, when your parents are already smacking you, their moods are the scariest things in the world. And because kids don't know that they have pushed too far until it is too late, they stay on eggshells.

[Snugglebugmom]

I found a link to an article about Dobson that I thought was very interesting. His mother was a royal nut job that hit him with whatever she could get her hands on when he mouthed off. For those who are interested:

http://www.nospank.net/dobson1.htm

I didn't need another reason to dislike Dobson, but the dog story made me loathe the man even more. He shows such a blatant ignorance of dogs' nature and needs, and he boasts about it in his book. I'm embarrassed for him. And I hope he gets cornered by a pack of wild dogs at some point who will "teach him who's boss".