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Old 03-30-2018, 09:18 PM   #16
SewingGreenMama
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

That was beautifully put forty-two. Gave me a lot to think about. I'm going to think it over and I'll come back later for more discussion.
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"Reflections like these lead one to spare the rod ... purely because it is not easy to find a punishment that does not defeat it's own ends." -Charlotte Mason Parents and Children pg. 171

"If punishment were necessarily reformative, and able to cure us all of those 'sins we have a mind to,' why, the world would be a very good world;" -Charlotte Mason, Parents and Children pg. 172

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Old 03-31-2018, 12:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

I love Charlotte Mason.

I haven't stayed true to the practical application as much in the high school years, but I try to retain the wonderful philosophies and let them soften the rough edges of a more curriculum-driven schedule.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

*Sorry I haven't kept this up well. I've been working on getting our schedule set up and starting to implement it.

Charlotte Mason's Principle #2:
Original Text:
They are not born either good or bad, but with possibilities for good and for evil.

Modern Paraphrase:
Although children are born with a sin nature, they are neither all bad, nor all good. Children from all walks of life and backgrounds may make choices for good or evil.

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"Reflections like these lead one to spare the rod ... purely because it is not easy to find a punishment that does not defeat it's own ends." -Charlotte Mason Parents and Children pg. 171

"If punishment were necessarily reformative, and able to cure us all of those 'sins we have a mind to,' why, the world would be a very good world;" -Charlotte Mason, Parents and Children pg. 172

W&C 8/4/06; G 15yo , M 11yo , S 8/29/13 , V 8yo , Baby 2yo
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:30 AM   #19
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

In the context in which she lived, I believe CM was pushing back strongly against two big ideas of her time: the idea that children are a blank slate, and the idea that only children from wealthy families are capable of being educated or worthy of educating. Thus, the idea that “children are persons” and now the idea that they are born sinful, are capable of both good and bad deeds (as are we all), and that this idea is true for children from all walks of life. In other words, she wanted *all children* to have an opportunity to have a broad education, not just those from wealthy families.
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

This one seems completely obvious to me. Of course and child can choose to do good or bad, and every child will choose both at times.

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Old 04-20-2018, 09:27 PM   #21
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

I would love to be part of this discussion! I have been following Charlotte masoms principles, and using ambleside online for the past 4 years. It has really blessed our family, and made me see education in a whole new light.

The second principle I believe was a reflection of her time, where only some people were seen worthy, if you were wealthy, or of a higher position in society you were seen as superior to those of the lower class. Charlotte mason wasn't born much later then George Muller started his first orphanhes for the poor children on the streets that were treated like they were worthless. A really sad time for the way people viewed children. It makes sense that this was a big issue and one of her principles while it sounds so common sense to us, it wasn't to many of that time. It was a big deal to say that poor children could do as well as those of more prominent families.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:11 PM   #22
SewingGreenMama
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Findingjoy View Post
I would love to be part of this discussion! I have been following Charlotte masoms principles, and using ambleside online for the past 4 years. It has really blessed our family, and made me see education in a whole new light.

The second principle I believe was a reflection of her time, where only some people were seen worthy, if you were wealthy, or of a higher position in society you were seen as superior to those of the lower class. Charlotte mason wasn't born much later then George Muller started his first orphanhes for the poor children on the streets that were treated like they were worthless. A really sad time for the way people viewed children. It makes sense that this was a big issue and one of her principles while it sounds so common sense to us, it wasn't to many of that time. It was a big deal to say that poor children could do as well as those of more prominent families.
I agree this was a product of her time.
Children we're also seen as the embodiment of their fathers sin, destined to repeat their father's/mother's sin.
If the father was a rapist he was merely a rapist-to-be.
If his father was a worthless drunk he was destined to be just as worthless in his adulthood.
If her mother was morally loose ... ie sexually permiscuous ... Then she wouldn't stay faithful to her husband and was usually overlooked as a potential wife, often left no choice but prostitution/mistress to survive.
But these children, given the chance, and especially the education, are capable of making their own choices for good and for evil separate from their parents sin.

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---------- Post added at 11:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------

As for how this applies to today.
Perhaps it is pertinent to the idea toted today that children are born pure and are at heart and nature good?

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"Reflections like these lead one to spare the rod ... purely because it is not easy to find a punishment that does not defeat it's own ends." -Charlotte Mason Parents and Children pg. 171

"If punishment were necessarily reformative, and able to cure us all of those 'sins we have a mind to,' why, the world would be a very good world;" -Charlotte Mason, Parents and Children pg. 172

W&C 8/4/06; G 15yo , M 11yo , S 8/29/13 , V 8yo , Baby 2yo
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:23 AM   #23
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SewingGreenMama View Post
As for how this applies to today.
Perhaps it is pertinent to the idea toted today that children are born pure and are at heart and nature good?

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Yes I think this principal does speak to how a child is capable of making bad choices. No everything a child desires is good and worthy.


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Old 04-28-2018, 11:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

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Old 04-29-2018, 07:57 AM   #25
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

Today children are taught that their bad choices don't come from within, they are inherently good, so their bad decision must have come from outside influence.
Friends? Media? Video Games? Bad parents? Crazy teacher?
So they don't need to change their heart and mind, they need to change the people around them. If they only allow uncorrupted people around them they will only make good choices.
This is such a dangerous teaching.

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"Reflections like these lead one to spare the rod ... purely because it is not easy to find a punishment that does not defeat it's own ends." -Charlotte Mason Parents and Children pg. 171

"If punishment were necessarily reformative, and able to cure us all of those 'sins we have a mind to,' why, the world would be a very good world;" -Charlotte Mason, Parents and Children pg. 172

W&C 8/4/06; G 15yo , M 11yo , S 8/29/13 , V 8yo , Baby 2yo
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:34 PM   #26
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

Charlotte Mason's 3rd Principle.

Original:
The principles of authority on the one hand, and of obedience on the other, are natural, necessary and fundamental, but--

Modern Paraphrase:
The concepts of authority and obedience are true for all people whether they accept it or not. Submission to Authority is necessary for any society or group or family to run smoothly.

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"Reflections like these lead one to spare the rod ... purely because it is not easy to find a punishment that does not defeat it's own ends." -Charlotte Mason Parents and Children pg. 171

"If punishment were necessarily reformative, and able to cure us all of those 'sins we have a mind to,' why, the world would be a very good world;" -Charlotte Mason, Parents and Children pg. 172

W&C 8/4/06; G 15yo , M 11yo , S 8/29/13 , V 8yo , Baby 2yo
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:43 AM   #27
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SewingGreenMama View Post
Charlotte Mason's 3rd Principle.

Original:
The principles of authority on the one hand, and of obedience on the other, are natural, necessary and fundamental, but--

Modern Paraphrase:
The concepts of authority and obedience are true for all people whether they accept it or not. Submission to Authority is necessary for any society or group or family to run smoothly.

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This is the one that I feel like I have completely lost in my house. I have been consistent I have had the same standards for years and still every day we have the same battle.

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Old 06-15-2018, 11:31 AM   #28
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Default Re: Charlotte Mason Principles Discssion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knitlove View Post
This is the one that I feel like I have completely lost in my house. I have been consistent I have had the same standards for years and still every day we have the same battle.

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