The hardest thing I have ever had to do

I was hoping that this day would never come, but it did. Let me give you a little background - I grew up in a loving family but the discipline used was very physical and abusive. My mother, in particular, was cold and verbally mean when it came to discipline. If I did something wrong, she would shut me out for days at a time...complete and utter rejection until she decided I was in her good graces again. Even though my father gave most of the spankings, my mother's rejection and mind games were more than I could bear (sp?). The physical abuse from my mother was always worse than if my father was going to spank me. My mother had no self control, no remorse, and acted hastily. The punishment was swift and harsh and yet the rejection that came with it also tortured me emotionally until she "loved" me again. (that is how I saw it, I truly think she loved me all the time but was limited in her ability to discipline effectively. My mother grew up in a alcoholic home - her mother extremely cold and her father drinking. I understand where she came from and as an adult I forgive her and hold nother against her. When I was 12 my mother had a stroke. I remember things being different after that. Not only did my father make more money (so money wasn't so tight and we weren't so broke) but now that we kids were older (and my dad around more) I think she enjoyed being a mother more.

My mother and I now enjoy a wonderful and close relationship. Often our disagreements are mended because I am willing to treat her with gentleness and not see her acting out as a rejection of me. I don't quite get the same treatment from her, but in her way she tries.

Fast forward to now, I am 35 with a wonderful, gorgeous son. He is the only grandchild on both sides and very, very loved. Joseph, my son, is very attached to my dad. He also loves my mother very much. My mother treats him with a kindness and compassion I don't remember getting as a child. My parents, and my MIL are the only ones who watch Joseph if I go out or if DH and I go out together. I never worry about him at all in their care. I have remarked often that we will not use punitve discipline nor any type of physical punishments. My mother looked at me astonishingly and said "We would never hit Joseph. He is our precious!!". Well, we are now into some temper tantrums, testing limits, having a hard time with emotions.... yesterday Joseph started a temper tantrum and tried to hit his head on my mothers head. (he bangs his head out of frustration at times). She *roughly* sat him down and just walked away while he cried his little heart out.

This just tore me up inside. I love my mother and our comfortable relationship we have now but I had to "rock the boat" by discussing discipline with her. I was as polite and loving as I could be, letting her know that I have forgiven her and do not hold anything against her from when I was a child, but that we both need to learn new ways of discipline as I WILL NOT HAVE MY SON, MY ONLY CHILD TREATED/DISCIPLINED LIKE I WAS AS A CHILD. She became very defensive and started yelling that she wasn't perfect and would never be and if I found a better way to do it than go ahead because she never figured it out and after all she was a terrible mother.....I told her I didn't expect perfection but that she was not such an old dog that she couldn't learn new tricks. She said she couldn't remember the 5 steps and that my DH and I couldn't settle any discipline for her and my dad to follow. I told her I was learning, and praying, and reading as fast as I could so as not to repeat the same mistakes. You can imagine what happened next, she rejected me. She wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't hug me....she shut me out in the cold. Just like old times! I know that is the risk I took talking to her but my son's tender spirit is more important than her ego.

Ladies, I have a few books with good ideas on spirited children but nothing concrete to apply in every day life except the 5 steps. Please, do you have any specific resources for this "get off your butt discipline"? Any advice? I don't know what to do at this point. My parents are listed as the guardians in our will if my Dh and I die. I am terrified to think my mother may not be able to change, and then what?

I am at the end of my rope here. I need their support as it is one of my only ways to get a break. I am pregnant and tired and need them. My DH is completely supportive. *sigh* I guess that is it for now. Thank you for listening. I just don't know what else to do.

[WI Mama05]

I am just learning too, so all I have are & for you!

[CelticJourney]

Taking a deep breath -- ok, this is given in my best 'big sister' voice, so please take it in that vain......

Parenting a toddler and being pregnant is probably one of the hardest things you will do. Labor will seem like a vacation to the emotional turmoil of the anticipation.

Ask yourself this "what did you want your mother to do differently in the example you gave?" If a toddler was trying to head butt me, I would also have sat him down (not roughly) and walked away - for my own safety and for his (it hurts his head as well as mine!). You can't necessarily expect a grandmother to physcially restrain a child who is activily trying to hit them and not spanking was probably a huge step in the right direction.

The very best way to help your parents learn how to GBD is to model it for them. Parents often read and read, grandparents are insulted if you ask them to do the same - not just yours. He is the first grandbaby and you are all walking a new path right now. Now, this is the point where I give you advice you don't want: if you want them to change you need to give spend time with your parents, modeling your parenting choices (without words unless asked) and not leave your son with them for awhile until you have more comfort that they understand. I don't think I was unique that when my babies where little in that I only got breaks once or twice a year when my parents came or we went to their house. My inlaws live 20 min away, but I did not trust them to meet my children's needs so I went without. You are not going to change your parent's approach with words, so you must make the choice to either not leave your son with them or take your 'breaks' in the same place with your parents (mom comes over and you get a shower/read a book in your room, etc.)

Hang in there - it does get better!

I agree with Elizabeth about not leaving him there alone. We make an effort to take our kids to see both sets of grandparents, but the only person we leave them with is my sister, and that is because she supports our parenting choices (whether or not she agrees with them--she respects them!) and tries to follow along with the way we deal with the boys. We didn't leave them with anyone until my 2nd son was around 18 months.

I don't know how old your son is, but I do think that it's easy for grandparents to have only warm and fuzzy feelings about their grand-babes until they hit a certain "age" or display behaviors that the adults find personally distasteful, offensive, or annoying. That's the point at which it starts getting sticky for a lot of families, and the point at which the disciplinary views of the grandparents start to show themselves. I think it's probably pretty typical for grandparents to *react* at this point in the same way they did when they were raising their own kids. (After all, they probably haven't spent the years since their kids left home dealing with toddlers and learning a new approach, so the old stuff is just going to come bubbling right to the surface. It's like a reflex. Same with parents.... Sometimes the things we don't want to do--maybe the way we were raised ourselves--come flying out in a moment of frustration or exhaustion.) Changing our "programming" is hard. Yes, it's possible for them to modify their ideas and learn new behaviors, but they don't have the same motivation as we do in most cases. They don't have to deal with the kids 24-7.. perhaps they still strongly believe they parenting in the "right" way... perhaps it's too painful to consider that their choices might have harmed their children... or maybe they look at us and think we "turned out pretty good" so why mess with success? So I guess I said all that to say that it's important to have realistic expectations of grandparents and other adult family/friends in our lives. Defining boundaries on how they treat our children is absolutely necessary. Asking them to show respect for our parenting choices--even if they don't agree--is completely appropriate. Expecting them to change their own behavior or views on parenting to accomodate/agree with ours is neither realistic or reasonable. We can only model and share with them if they are open to hearing, like Elizabeth said.

It's so hard to choose a different path from our parents without having them feel it as a personal insult to their parenting and rejection of their beliefs. I've been there, done that.

Ladies, I have a few books with good ideas on spirited children but nothing concrete to apply in every day life except the 5 steps. Please, do you have any specific resources for this "get off your butt discipline"? Any advice? I don't know what to do at this point. My parents are listed as the guardians in our will if my Dh and I die. I am terrified to think my mother may not be able to change, and then what?

Are you asking for resources for yourself? Or for something to pass along to your Mom?

If it's the first: You'll find a lot of tools in the Gentle Discipline Forum. You can also look at aolff.com I personally got a lot of ideas from Raising Your Spirited Child, Biblical Parenting, The Discipline Book, and How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk... but I've gotten most of my "hard-core" practical help from posting and reading about specific scenarios on this board.

I will say this, though... it's a process. It's time-consuming. There are new situations to deal with at every turn, and they often catch you off-guard and you have to fall back, regroup, think of ways to handle it, and then try again the next time. In other words, there's no formula for this kind of parenting. The five steps is a fantastic tool, and I love it b/c it's scripted and easy to remember and apply to various situations. It's the most concrete tool I know of for responding to something "in the moment." But you're going to need more than that as you go forward... and a lot of other tools are more subjective, a little harder to learn, and a lot more complex. (Things like reflecting feelings, establishing boundaries, providing structure, and learning to really communicate with out kids)

I wouldn't pass anything on to your Mom unless she expresses interest or asks for further explanation of what you are doing.

Maybe I expect too much. I do see a HUGE improvement on their part so I'm sure I need to acknowledge that. They are more than happy to accomodate my DH and I when it comes to our "rules" and such. My mother told me at one point that they are terrified of me. That if they don't do it all my way that I won't bring Joseph back. I would never punish my son that way nor would I treat my parents that way. This all makes me sound so...so, I don't know what. Maybe unreasonable? I'm not trying to be. I'm just trying to do the best I can.

I need my parents support. I know that I have it and that they love me. I love them too. This is all so hard. Maybe I am projecting my childhood fears onto them. I don't know.

I agree that she has made progress and that my Dh and I need to show them by our actions how we want our son to be disciplined. But I don't think just modeling the behavior is enough. Not discussing the obvious seems to be a way to just ignore the past and to ignore how I was disciplined. I also think that not stating the obvious, (that I won't have my son treated the same way as I was), is in a small way condining that type of discipline. Why leave it to chance? Why not simply say that we will not accept that behavior. They also need a clear boundary for what is and what is not acceptable.

I already have Raising your Spirited Child as well as Parent Effectiveness Training. Both are fantastic. I also have the five steps and the do's and don'ts for GOYBD. I feel like I am getting a small handle on this. It doesn't help that i am so very, very emotional, pregnant and chasing after a high needs 19 month old.

I appreciate all of your responses. I have to admit that at first I didn't like what I read. But you are right. My mother is doing amazingly well considering where she has come from. And I know she wants to do it all just right this time with Joseph. I need to let her know how much I appreciate her growth in this area, keep praying, and model the behavior I want to see from her.

Thank you for posting this. It is an inspiration to me and probably many, many other people who need the courage to set this kind of boundary.

I would encourage you to see this as a positive step in a process. If your parents are going to be around your son (which is YOUR choice. Period.) You need to set boundaries for discipline and, if they are interested, teach them what is working for you. Despite your mom's big feelings here, I see her being interested in this. If at all possible, give her specifics. Like how the 5 steps would apply in that situation -- "he needs space" or "he needs help." At the same time, GBD is a shift of the heart and mind, and you can't force that on another person.

You don't have to be afraid of her anger any more. She can't hurt you. You are safe. It is understandable to want all the love and approval from your mother that you do -- she is your mother. It took a lot of courage to place your child's safety as a higher priority. I hope you can keep doing this, no matter how big her feelings get, whether she tries guilt, threats, drama, tears, etc. This is her problem. Thanks for writing about this because it is really helping me today.

I need my parents support.

I won't have my son treated the same way as I was.

((( Mom2Joseph )))

I think what I was responding to was this combination of thoughts which you expressed in both posts. On one hand, you want to depend on them for help/support, and I got the impression that also includes babysitting and being caretakers over your son... but you also require them to do it on your terms.

I think it's completely fair for you to enforce boundaries regarding the way your son is treated. And it think it's great to have family that you *can* depend on to help out with your kids. But I'm not sure it's reasonable to willingly depend on someone for their help/support while also dictating the terms of how they give that help. Does that make sense?

I really love my parents, too, and we have a good relationship, but I know that they do not support some of my parenting choices, especially in disciplinary matters. So, for me, there is a choice. I could solicit the help/babysitting that I know my parents would gladly provide with the realization that my children may well be disciplined in a way I don't like, or I can live without that additional help.

Not discussing the obvious seems to be a way to just ignore the past and to ignore how I was disciplined.

Maybe you should consider discussing the past as it relates to YOU and let the way they treat your son exist as a totally separate subject? It might be really healing for you both to talk about it. It sounds like maybe your Mom has a lot of regret as it is, and might really benefit from the attitude that the mistakes she made with you are in the past and she has a fresh opportunity to love and nurture her grandchild without living under that cloud.

I also think that not stating the obvious, (that I won't have my son treated the same way as I was), is in a small way condining that type of discipline. Why leave it to chance? Why not simply say that we will not accept that behavior. They also need a clear boundary for what is and what is not acceptable.

I agree with the idea that if/when you choose to be around people who disagree with you, it is necessary to make your position clear. Along the same line as what I was saying before, though... maybe you could express your boundaries in a way that doesn't personalize.

"I won't let you treat him the way you treated me" is accusatory and hostile and oozing with unresolved pain. Approaching it that way tacks on a lot of emotional baggage and automatically puts your parents in the position of defending themselves.

Instead, maybe your boundaries can be stated as clear, calm explanations of how you DO handle situations. It never hurts to sympathize with the frustration level of the other adult, too.

"I know that hurts! I'm so sorry. He head-butts when he's feeling overwhelmed. We handle it by doing XYZ."

"It *is* really frustrating when he tantrums. When I start to feel upset with Joseph, I take a quick "time-out" for myself to calm down so that I don't yell. THEN I go back and talk to him, so he can learn to be honest about feelings and resolve conflicts."

"When Joseph doesn't want to follow instructions, we give him the choice of doing it himself, or letting us help him do it. Either way it gets done, and he learns that our words have meaning."

Despite your mom's big feelings here, I see her being interested in this. If at all possible, give her specifics. Like how the 5 steps would apply in that situation -- "he needs space" or "he needs help." At the same time, GBD is a shift of the heart and mind, and you can't force that on another person.

Well said! I also found that--especially in the preverbal years--reflecting my son's feelings out loud around people who don't share my mindset allows me to "teach" them how and why I parent the way I do, and put my son's behavior in perspective *for them.*

"I hear you yelling. You're angry and disappointed that Mommy won't let you have candy. You don't understand why I said no." (etc.)

It doesn't help that i am so very, very emotional, pregnant and chasing after a high needs 19 month old.

Bless your heart! I SO remember! My guys were 21 months apart, and I'm 8 months pg with my third, so I'm a bit hormonal/exhausted myself at the moment... I'm just trying to remember how GREAT it felt when the baby was born (and how fabulous it was to not be pregnant anymore ) and push through the remaining weeks.

My mother told me at one point that they are terrified of me. That if they don't do it all my way that I won't bring Joseph back.

hugs.
my mother used a lot of shaming and a similar drawn out process before she decided to be ok with you again. (my sister actually embraced corporal punishement for her kids as her slant on it was 'at least a smack is over and done with'.)

the above quote says to me, that she is worried you will do to her, what she did to you. a bit like how a thief will think you are stealing from them and a generous person assumes others forgive easily like they do.

maybe there is a way of doing the half way ground (as has already been suggested) to not leave her responsible for him in ways that 'set her up to fail' in this area..... like you staying there so you can step in, but are able to take a back seat and rest.
just a thought.

[katiekind]

Wow, Mom2Joseph, you have made amazing progress in your relationship with your parents by God's grace. That's got to be inspiring to quite a few people reading. I really love how you've given her credit for the idea that she CAN change and she CAN learn new ways of handling the children. With as much progress as she has made so far, I bet she'll come a little farther.

I don't know about "concrete" parenting tips...but I can recommend the book "How to Really Love Your Kids". It's a good one for basic skills. I mean, it sounds like your mom is truly getting there. Handling little ones takes practice and knowing the kids. And there isn't always a "right way" to handle something, sometimes you fly by instruments...the main one being, "treat this person as I would want to be treated". If she has a short fuse, it helps to make sure she's getting rest and keeping her blood sugar up so that she's not dealing with him while she's depleted herself.

That's off the top of my head....mainly I just wanted to tell you I'm impressed by the love and patience you've shown.

I just wanted to say thank you again for all your kind words and advice. I talked with my mother when we both weren't so emotional and it was a wonderful discussion. She apologized for her past parenting and told me that she was willing to do her best by Joseph. I told her that I knew that and how much I loved her. Also, how much I appreciate her support. Joseph loves my parents so very, very much.

I am so very tired and emotional and pregnant....just when Joseph seems to be getting into temper tantrums. It has been a tough week or so but I think we are going to make it.

Thanks for the great books recommendations - I have put many on my Christmas list!