Brainstorming help, please!

[Iveyrock]

I'm not sure where to put this, because it covers special needs, homeschooling, and gentle discipline. This seemed like the best catch all spot, but I'm fine having it moved if that's better.

I am having constant issues with chores in the morning. There are several components to the problem.

Each morning, kids are supposed to clear the breakfast spot, make their bed (like, throw blankets back up, not anything hard) and tidy their room. Then they each have a chore they are supposed to get done. In theory, these things are supposed to get done before we start school for the day.

I have one kid who has a really hard time moderating himself, controlling his impulses, etc. It routinely takes him over an hour to do his chores. In theory, chores should be taking 15 to twenty minutes, depending on how messy their rooms are. (He doesn't play in his room, so it's not like it's a huge mess. Usually tidying means putting his lovies back on his bed.)

I have two other kids with developmental delays who occasionally need help/reminders/whatever to get their chores done.

I have one kid who loves knowing what he's supposed to do and doing it, and is very easy in the mornings.

Then I have my two oldest. I am particularly frustrated with both of them right now. If I am spending time trying to work with the littler kids, they are either not doing chores, being crazy and winding everyone else up, etc. I think my oldest and I have reached a solution for that, but my eight year old is just not doing stuff because... she doesn't want to. She's a great worker when she wants to be, and when she decides she doesn't want to do something, she just... doesn't.

So I feel like I am pulling teeth to get people to get through their stuff. Then I start the day frustrated, I'm running trying play catch up with all of the things that need helped with. There really isn't any natural consequence of not getting chores done except doing less school, and that's certainly not ok. Especially because the son who has the most trouble focusing on getting his chores done also needs the most help with school.

How can I switch things around? We have been doing get dressed/make bed/tidy room for as long as the kids can remember, so it's a pretty big anchor in our day. I could switch that up, but I'm not sure if it would help or make more chaos.

Recently I had been doing spiral notebooks for each kid, with their chores for the day to mark off. It helped the eight year old for a bit, but now she's bored with it and not interested.

There is a whole mix of attachment issues, developmental issues, language delay issues going on... so nothing is every simple for us.

I am contemplating for my kid who is really struggling with his chores pulling back his privileges, because he's really having trouble functioning right now. Not sure if that's a good idea or not. For the eight year old, I want to start giving her small extra jobs for every time I have to stop my work to come make her do hers - she is taking my time and energy. I don't know if that's the right approach either.

How do you all handle chores? Those that home school, how do you balance that and chores? How do you throw special needs into the mix? I feel like I have tried and tried to tweak this to set us all up for success, and I am out of creativity.

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

Coming back to add that both kids I am struggling the most with are type Ones, if that helps give a larger picture of the whole thing.

[mamacat]

Could the oldest kind of oversee the 8 yr old? Is there a between chores and school thing you can do that will help motivate them to finish the chores? It sounds like too many things in a row for some kids.Can you have a tidy room time in late afternoon or evening? How about taking turns with things so one or two are responsible for the clearing ,and another pair in charge of tidying the rooms that week or day.It sounds like the one is doing the things but just needs the extra time? Can you break it up more like everyone pull up covers before they come down to eat breakfast.Is it after breakfast that they go and dress and finish other chores? I know what seems to work best for moms of many is to have a child or 2 assigned to one chore they do all the time or to switch off and have one or 2 in charge of them for a week at a time. It might even help to put a positive slant on it with the 8 yr old and talk about how chores are sometimes not fun but if there is something she feels like she does extra well and would like to be put in charge of.Some kids like to vacuum.Some ids like to put groceries away and are good at organizing the cupboards etc. Of course she may so no but then again,she might surprise you!

[heartofjoy]

Can you move tidying their rooms and their one other chore to after school? Just keep the morning super simple with breakfast and making the beds so you can get started on school stuff. Then maybe have a mid-afternoon time either after your quiet time (if you do one) or just before you are doing dinner prep where they do their other chore and tidy their room?

If it helps, we only tidy our rooms once a week, not daily, because I just can't deal with it. But I don't have little ones playing in their rooms. Mostly my kids just deal with clothes and random junk that they've thrown on the floor rather than put away. So that might not work for you.

For the type ones, you could make the chore time more fun adding silly songs or music or maybe plan something super exciting, like a snack!, right afterwards so they have a concrete fun thing that they are working towards.

[ArmsOfLove]

when my children were younger I had to insert myself into the cleaning situation and oversee and direct as a group thing - I would give assignments that allowed me to help one at a time. so I might be helping someone do something that would be tough for them, but I might also need to repeatedly get someone else back on task. I just make sure enough people are doing things easy for them that they don't need me standing over them. If multiple children need lots of help then I have them all help me with something so I can be directing them all.

Wanting them to be independent did nothing but frustrate me and them I stopped for my own sake and then I saw it help them

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------

I also had to let go of age as a determination of what they should be able to do and look at what they could do and just go with that. that was the reality

[camperjen]

My younger son is a pain when it comes to most things that look like work. Ugh, I could tear my hair out sometimes, it can be so frustrating. I found what works best - and you may have tried this in your own way - is to make him feel like he's choosing stuff. So instead of me coming into the room and saying, "Come ON, it's time to ___. I warned you, now please get to work", I look at the time and choose a conservative time frame and say, "It's 10:20. I need you to ____. Would you please get up at 10:23 and do that chore?" He'll ask for 10:30 and I will approve - because I've already decided it is within my reasonable time frame (and my suggestion will purposely be inside that time frame so I can look like I'm giving in a bit). Could you switch it up so the two biggers get started on something that feels responsible (just not chores lol) that the littles couldn't or wouldn't be allowed to do? Could they get started on classwork and then do chores before lunch or some other time?

This sounds so crazy, but I found that if I allow N five minutes - and it only takes five! - of iPad playing first thing in the morning, it kinda wakes him up and he's ready to move. It felt so counter-intuitive - I wanted him to *earn* the pad by doing what he needed first, but then I realized what he needed was something different.

Good luck - it can be SO frustrating putting things together and figuring out what works while trying what feels like 100 ways that didn't work.

[Iveyrock]

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove

when my children were younger I had to insert myself into the cleaning situation and oversee and direct as a group thing - I would give assignments that allowed me to help one at a time. so I might be helping someone do something that would be tough for them, but I might also need to repeatedly get someone else back on task. I just make sure enough people are doing things easy for them that they don't need me standing over them. If multiple children need lots of help then I have them all help me with something so I can be directing them all.

Wanting them to be independent did nothing but frustrate me and them I stopped for my own sake and then I saw it help them

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------

I also had to let go of age as a determination of what they should be able to do and look at what they could do and just go with that. that was the reality

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out - I want to let go of expectations that are too much, but it throws me when A) they are things that kids have been able to handle ok in the past and B) what does that mean for the rest of his life, if he can't handle age appropriate chores? Does he then get treated as age appropriate in other areas?

I am thinking through changing the timing of chores up - the thing is, it's been this way since.. .forever, and I'm processing the gains in switching things up with the routine and stability that the special needs kids also need.

I went and looked in his room, to make sure I was representing this correctly, and the stuff that he has to pick up for "tidy his room" The kids don't play in their room at all, so it's really only the stuff from over night. Today he has his blankets, which fall under making the bed, his stuffed animals, that get thrown up on the bed as part of making it, and the pile of library books he looked at last night that he needs to pick up and put with the other library books. I can see getting rid of his individual job, although as I've been typing this out I am realizing that's the thing he does the best with. I don't know if it's because by the time he gets to that point he's decided to function, or cause he likes it, or what...

The biggest problem, really, is the learned helplessness, and I don't know that anyone can help me with that. In the past, I have stayed with him the entire time that he did his chores. That resulted in going from being able to do his chores, but taking a long time to do them, to just literally turning his body off if I walked away to go pee or something, to believing that he couldn't do it without my help, to.... the more help I gave him, the more he believed he couldn't do. It's just super hard and frustrating to deal with. The big problem that happened today is that I tried to talk to him about the fact that he was acting crazy, instead of cleaning up - which results in him just turning his brain off. There's nothing functional I can DO with that, and it's just... frustrating.

As far as the 8 year old - she just likes things to be fun, and balks when they aren't. I feel like she needs things to be constantly mixed up, which is hard when other kids really need routine. I can work on that, though, that's fixable.

[MudPies]

My kids have daily chores, weekly chores and a few times a week chores. My kids get media/ipad time after dinner only. Chores must be done before media. I did have to let go about doing them first thing

[MegMarch]

The easiest way for me to make things fun for mine is to pretend we are someone else. Usually a mama animal or character from a show and her child, or robots.

When I was a kid, it worked best to be told to do things for a very small amount of time and see how much I could do, or to only have to pick up 5 things at a time. Breaking things down like that took the overwhelming nature of chores away for me.

[MariJo7]

Originally Posted by Iveyrock

There really isn't any natural consequence of not getting chores done except doing less school, and that's certainly not ok.

No, it isn't . Could it be possible that your kids, or some of them, have realized there will be less school if they are slow with their chores? Could it be possible they are playing with it more or less consciously?

In a family where there is no home schooling and the kids have to go to ordinary school, there is no way for them to get "less school" by being extra slow with their morning chores. When the school bus comes, you have to be ready and go, chores or no chores done.

What if you change the order of the day a little. Just start with school right after the kids are clothed and ready with their breakfast. And put the chores before media time or other leisure activities. No chores done, no TV, internet or iPad. I'd most surprised if that would not have any effect.

[mamacat]

I would still ry changing it up and spreading out the order or who does what.It just soubnds like such a long stretch of first chores and then school to me for kids of any age or abilities

[Aerynne]

I would tie it to breakfast- they can have breakfast when it's done.

[Anne Ofalamo]

Thumping blasting music and me in a good mood.
We struggled with morning chores, goodness, mornings in general and chores just because all families get in ruts with chores...they are boooooooooooooring!
so.
we would have breakfast
and for a week or so, I would be the one to initiate what we called freeze out!
The windows would open, doors open and our little stereo would be blasted for 10 minutes tops, as the chores were done!
It is pure delightful. After the 6th day, I hadn't put on the music, one of my girls asked if she could!
It so sets the tone for the day. Homeschool can get monotonous, and switching it up is a joy!

added note:
we would also take Life Skills day and together (4 kids at the time) we would clean house all day. Everyone had a room and as we finished we moved to help the others. By lunch we would be done, and choice of a soda was our reward! Same thing, loud loud music and freezing cold...lol
the cold is my weird quirk, to clean out the air.

[Iveyrock]

Thank you guys for all of your thoughts (and more are welcome, of course!).

I was super overwhelmed yesterday, but I wanted to come back and clarify about school, cause I realized that part was probably confusing. We do school right after chores, but we unschool, and our 'school' is child led projects. So basically, it's the chores I listed, then circle time (I tell them what's going to happen that day and read two picture books) and then project time - which is literally time for them to do whatever they want. It's just specific time set apart that I am available to help, and that I am paying special attention. So I want him to be part of it, because it's school - but it's not sitting down work at all, unless he happens to want to sit down and writing something. Today for project time he helped the other kids paint a boat that they made out of wood, then made a castle with chairs and blankets. He and his sister dressed up in costumes and 'lived' in the castle. The most specific thing we do is once a week, when we do 'special little kids and mom time', and I have planned preschool type activities. This week it's play Mother May I, sing two nursery rhymes, I read them an ABC book, and we will make sculptures out of pipe cleaners, buttons, and beads. So we do school next, and it's valuable time, but it's not like I'm making him do a bunch of chores and then seat work. It's basically play time next, with about 15 minutes of circle time in between.

Originally Posted by Anne Ofalamo

Thumping blasting music and me in a good mood.
We struggled with morning chores, goodness, mornings in general and chores just because all families get in ruts with chores...they are boooooooooooooring!
so.
we would have breakfast
and for a week or so, I would be the one to initiate what we called freeze out!
The windows would open, doors open and our little stereo would be blasted for 10 minutes tops, as the chores were done!
It is pure delightful. After the 6th day, I hadn't put on the music, one of my girls asked if she could!
It so sets the tone for the day. Homeschool can get monotonous, and switching it up is a joy!

added note:
we would also take Life Skills day and together (4 kids at the time) we would clean house all day. Everyone had a room and as we finished we moved to help the others. By lunch we would be done, and choice of a soda was our reward! Same thing, loud loud music and freezing cold...lol
the cold is my weird quirk, to clean out the air.

Music is a great idea - I actually used to do that in our old home, and it worked really well. Unfortunately, my DH works from home, which also complicates our day - it limits the amount of loud music I can play, which seriously cramps my style. When he goes to work at a coffee shop, we totally rock out

[camperjen]

How about "you choose when to do chores but it must be before you get any play time". So s/he can do it at the beginning of the day when you request it (and when the littlers do it) or can make the bed/clean the room after school time. Older kids get different privileges, but they still have work to do, and their privilege is choosing *when* to do that work.

[Quiteria]

For mine, I would probably work with them one-on-one to get chores done during project time, or at least send them off to do their chore but be aware whether it was getting done or not. I'm not sure if that would work for the learned helplessness issue, or disrupt the cooperation that they seem to be doing so well with. But when they start having trouble with getting chores done independently, I either spread them out so that I can monitor individually while the others are engaged in something else, or as Crystal said, I switch to group chores that we all do together. Sometimes that is more "fair" that no one has to work while others slack. If I can't come up with a chore for everyone, I may group them in twos or threes....help the littles while the oldest reads, help the olders while the littles watch something or play, etc.