operation bed separation is not going well

[esperanza]

We were on vacation a couple weeks ago and due to the room set up, ds was on a mattress on the floor next to our queen size bed. It was the first time he hadn't been right on our level, and he slept great! Zero or one wake ups each night! Hallelujah! I figured this was the answer- maybe he really needed to be in his own space.

We came home and moved his twin bed that had been right next to our queen bed away from our bed. Still in our room, but perpendicular and not touching at all. It's been a mess.

He wakes up at least once, usually twice, sometimes more (so this is how he usually sleeps not on vacation), but now every time I have to get up and go over to his bed. I lay down with him planning to stay awake, inevitably I fall asleep, wake up a couple hours later, go back to our bed, and then repeat next time he wakes up.

I also got so sick of the night nursing and told him (again) that we're done nursing at night. Two nights ago it was great- woke once, just asked for snuggles, fine when I told him he couldn't nurse, it was great. I really thought we'd turned a corner and was so excited. Last night he woke up many times, hysterical each time, so upset about nursing, ended up nursing him because I just wanted sleep, then later brought him into our bed and no one slept well because we're all crammed into a smaller space. Ugh.

So is this how it's supposed to go once you move their bed away from yours? Because I thought this would help things and it isn't (night weaning aside). The getting up and going to his bed and then back to my bed is giving me even less sleep. I hesitate to push his bed back though. He's going to be three this month, and I really want to start pushing him to more independence and thinking about moving to his own room. He's fine with his bed separate from ours, but has no interest in moving to his own room yet.

[mamacat]

I would move it back again personally rather than get up & down like that all night or crowd into either bed. If they arent ready they just arent. I would also remind him during daytime hours that he nurses only when sun is up. What it might look like at some poin is having a bog bed in another room that he starts out in an ten if he wakes up he can quietly come into the bed in your room.

[KSL]

I wonder if it might help to just change one thing (either the no night nursing or the new bed situation, but not both at once?) for me, personally, the night nursing was the thing I had to take care of for my sleep to improve. Night weaning (we did it once when he was like 14 months old where DH was in charge from 11 pm to 6 AM and I slept in another room, and that took about a week and he never got that upset at all with DH; then I came back in the room and he mostly stuck to not nursing after I nursed him to sleep until maybe 4-5 AM, so a good 7-8 hour stretch and night but he was still sleeping between DH and I. He weaned at around 26 months completely). All that to say the night weaning worked for the most part but I don't think DS was ready to be out of our room at that age. Every kid is totally unique in this of course but DS (6.5) still sleeps with us (well, he did when I was sleeping in the room with DH- I moved myself out into the queen bed in DDs room when I was 8 months pregnant with her and DS and DH still sleep together now in our big bed in master bedroom while I'm with DD in her room). So I have no advice for getting your DS to sleep in his own room, but if the night nursing is the main thing interrupting your sleep, I wonder if you could start with that?

Also... I totally have been in your shoes when you think wow! We are really turning a corner/I found the solution to this sleep thing..... And then yeah. It doesn't stick. Super frustrating. Sorry that happened to you.

[esperanza]

We talked again tonight about not nursing again until he sees 5 or 6 as the first number on the clock. Last night he woke up around 10 and was really scared/upset, which I think set the tone for the whole night. I'm hoping tonight goes a little better. He definitely understands, and we've gone around and around about it. He just doesn't like it and has a strong idea that nursing helps him feel better (he wants to nurse when he's upset/hurt too).

We'll see. We did the bed move a week or so this attempt at night weaning, but maybe it was too much. I just hoped that moving his bed would help him wake less, which would mean less wanting to nurse. It hasn't, and it has just meant more up and down for me.

[mamacat]

It is def a process and not a quick fix thing,usually and anything that upsets the applecart can make it start again. Even when they get older they can need you in night if feeling poorly or bad dream or hear wierd noise outside etc.

[Little Forest]

I have just weaned a 3 yr old off falling asleep in the Ergobaby, that was starting to rip from her weight. Hope you will be on to the next phase soon.
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[ArmsOfLove]

First of all, growing up is one step forward two steps back. That's just the reality of it all. Every move ahead is met with regression in some other area. Go with the flow is so vital..

Second, it sounds like maybe on vacation he was getting exhausted. How is your daily routine for getting all of his energy out?

[esperanza]

Things have generally been better, except for that one rough night. He usually wakes up once a night, though last night was twice. There was one night he slept all night! Amazing!! I think he was really tired on vacation. Yesterday he played a ton and hard, and he woke up twice. I haven't really seen a connection. He always falls asleep fast, but it's the middle of the night wake ups that are rough.

Two nights ago he was in my bed, and neither of us slept well, so that was the sign that I needed to know that we need to keep going with this. He is so active and moves all over his bed.

The hard thing now is that he is waking up so early. He used to wake up around 6:30 or 7. Now he's waking consistently before 6, usually around 5:30. I try to lay down with him and nurse right away to get him back to sleep, but no luck. He's awake for the day. He's going to sleep around 7:30, and he just isn't getting enough sleep. He yawns all day. 10-10.5 hours isn't enough. He won't nap early enough, but would fall asleep around 4 pm if I let him (very bad idea). The other day he crashed for 2.5 hours in an early nap because all the sleep deprivation caught up to him.

If anyone has any tips on how to get him to sleep later, let me know! We have black out curtains. Nothing has changed, other than moving his bed. This is exhausting for all of us. Moving his bedtime later doesn't seem to make a difference. The other day he went to sleep at 8 and was still up very early. I hate seeing him tired but not able to get enough sleep! Seriously, this boy (now 3 years old!) and his sleep are going to be the death of me. At least I gave up expecting any good sleep a looong time ago.

[2TMama]

Uggggh...sleep struggles!!! (that's a frustrated face, btw...not angry ) I SO feel your pain, sister! I just keep thinking kind of like Crystal said....and reminding myself "we'll get there"....it is definitely a process!

[esperanza]

Thanks. He is so tired and crabby already this morning. I just have so little patience when I feel like he is tired because he wakes up too early and I have done everything to help him sleep later. I think he will need a nap today, which will through everything off for bed tonight. I have no idea why for days now he is waking up way too early!

[2TMama]

It is trying, for sure. I hate it when you knooooowwww they are so tired and you are trying to make it better (for everyone !).
Prayers that you'll see some progress SOON!

[mamacat]

It sounds like you are officially moving into that no nap transition which looks just like that. When they nap then tend to stay up latr or wake earlier.When they dont nap cranky afternoons and evenings.I will say for *us* once we got thru that rough time it was much better.My youngest would go to bed at 9 each night and sleep until 9 in the morning.My next youngest would also go to bed at 9 and sleep until 7 or 7:30

[esperanza]

Originally Posted by mamacat

It sounds like you are officially moving into that no nap transition which looks just like that. When they nap then tend to stay up latr or wake earlier.When they dont nap cranky afternoons and evenings.I will say for *us* once we got thru that rough time it was much better.My youngest would go to bed at 9 each night and sleep until 9 in the morning.My next youngest would also go to bed at 9 and sleep until 7 or 7:30

He dropped his nap about six months ago. He naps maybe once every three weeks if he is really tired, but it throws off bedtime. I think a couple weeks of not enough sleep is catching up to him, hence a nap today. He was sleeping about 11-12 hours but isn't anymore and is TIRED.

[ValiantJoy07]

Originally Posted by mamacat

It sounds like you are officially moving into that no nap transition which looks just like that. When they nap then tend to stay up latr or wake earlier.When they dont nap cranky afternoons and evenings.I will say for *us* once we got thru that rough time it was much better.My youngest would go to bed at 9 each night and sleep until 9 in the morning.My next youngest would also go to bed at 9 and sleep until 7 or 7:30

This. Nap transitions are the worst. As for the early wake ups if he's up that early I would make the morning as boring as possible. Relocate with your pillow to the couch, hand him a pre-made snack, and if you do screen time allow it to get a little more sleep. Or tell him your are still tired and need more rest and he can listen to stories next to you on the couch. This is usually when they crawled all over me and I didn't really sleep but it helped a bit to get an extra 45 minutes of rest. The dropping nap transition is really hard. Dd3 it was the worst, she dropped it at right after her 3rd Birthday (right around when she also weaned, and nap nursing was her last to give up). She is 4.5 and she still does the dance some days of needing a nap and being miserable, but unless we're in the car around 3/3:30 she will not fall asleep. I will say she became a rock hard solid sleeper when she dropped her naps, she was OUT.

Another thought, how is the air quality in your home? Have you had your filters changed? Is it damp? is there any thing environmentally that could be bothering him? Just wondering, I'm sure vacation wore him out- but I'm wondering if some thing at home isn't disturbing his sleep *just* enough to cause extra night wakings?

[esperanza]

We already went through the no-nap transition about 6 months ago at 2.5. He was sleeping for 11-12 hours (of course still waking up) but from about 7:30 pm to 6:30 or 7 am. It was working well. We went on vacation, he slept even better (and was in his own space). We came home and continued with his own space, but since then he's been waking up much earlier, like 5:30 am. It's like we're going backwards- needing to nap when he didn't before!

He's actually sleeping right now. I can tell that days of not enough sleep just pile up, and then he needs a nap. He is clearly tired during the day, yawning and sometimes acting tired (crabby). But he won't nap unless I lay down and nurse him, and even then today he tried to fight it. I won. So I think at this point the whole vacation thing is irrelevant. But bigger issue is just waking up too early and not going back to sleep. I understand though; I'm the same way. I'll wake up at 5 am, be wide awake, mind going, and not be able to fall back asleep even though I need more sleep.

It's an interesting idea about air quality. I'm allergic to molds and mildew, and I haven't had any problems. He's STTN maybe 5-10 times in his life, so this is nothing new. He is still waking up at least once during the night, but now he's also waking up too early.

He will lay with me and nurse (only way he'll stay still in bed), usually for about 45 minutes. It buys me a little extra rest time. He already gets about 45 min of screen time at rest time, which I already feel guilty about, and I don't want to start offering that at other times. He expects it at rest time, and it's a big struggle to turn it off if he gets it at other times.

Just wish I could figure out why he was waking up so early and how to help him sleep later. He definitely needs more sleep than he's getting.

Note- this didn't publish before (he slept at noon, not 3 pm)