Teaching them how to study when you don't do grades

[NovelMama]

We're moving more and more toward the unschooling side of things, and while I'm mostly okay with that, I do get concerned about their study skills. When you do everything to mastery and they know they're going to have unlimited chances to work on things until they've gotten them right, there's not a lot of motivation (or opportunity) to learn how to prepare for an exam - or for anything that requires you to prepare in advance for something so you can "get it right the first time".

At what age do you start working on things like that? AJ is almost 10, but this is only our third year of structured school. I was going to start working on it this year by having her start learning where all the states are and what the capitals are and testing her on those things, but I don't know if it's a too early to have to worry about that.

I guess one of the other things I'm concerned about that kind of goes along with this is the idea of learning how to put time into learning about/working on things that aren't necessarily things you love. If left to her own devices, the only thing she'd read about and invest time in would be Minecraft. If she was one of those kids who showed an interest in something that could potentially become a career I wouldn't mind so much. Heck, if her interest in Minecraft led her to want to learn how to code, I'd be happy! But it's just playing the games and watching YouTube videos of other people playing the games. When it comes to homeschool stuff, even when I give her the chance to steer where we go with things (like letting her decide what we're going to study for science, or letting her select the next book we read) there isn't anything she has any real interest in. She just doesn't care. It's my biggest concern with our move toward unschooling. ANYway...point being...I want her to learn that there are times you have to put serious effort into things even though you don't like them, but I don't know how to teach that without implementing testing and grading and stuff that I don't really want to do.

Thoughts???

[Katigre]

I believe really strongly in the need for exposure to things before you can decide whether or not you're actually interested in them. So I would lean toward giving them choice in the order they do things (ex. "Would you rather study zoology or astronomy this semester?") but not in choosing whether to study a given subject at all or taking their lack of interest as a guide for for learning. I believe there are so many things we wouldn't realize are of interest to us without actually doing them first, even if we don't like it at the time. This has definitely been true in my own life, so I am grateful for being pushed outside my familiar comfort zone in many areas - it is how I found the career I now love!

So that may not be helpful to you at all . I am very strongly NOT an unschooler past early elementary for many reasons.

[bananacake]

I rarely had to study in college, but I have a degree in music

[mamacat]

For us unschooling looked like kid showing an interest about something and then ME providing info or even curric books or an online course for them about that topic that involved regular subjects and also had student do a practical math,like kitchen math .For instance dd showed an interest in Journalism and Israel.So fund awesome website where there were news articles to read about all facets of things pertaining to Israel - science and technology,geography and history,art & culture. Some had built in questions to answer.At one time she was interested in Italy.Can you tell she is a geography and map type person.Even doing things like watching Househunters Intl about families looking for housing in a specific region.They are s chock full of mini history and cultural and even geography

[Soliloquy]

I'll be back later when I have more time. Quickly, in our house, I don't allow for obsessions that involve video games. My kids got obsessed with Minecraft a few years ago. After a month, I banned it from the house. Just recently, they asked if they could have another go. We are trying it, tentatively.

I view video games the same way I view junk food. Once in awhile is okay. I don't keep it in the house regularly. If I have it in the house and they start sneaking it or fill up on it and have no appetite for healthy foods (or whine about my limits), then I know I can't have it in the house.

My other thought is that I've seen a lot of people attempt unschooling half-way. They like the idea but still have academic requirements and testing, usually out of fear that their kids won't learn what they need. They usually end up very frustrated. Structured unschooling is one thing, half-and-half is entirely different. Just something to think about.

[mamacat]

I wouldnt let topics get so random like Minecraft either.

[Kirkie]

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[forty-two]

Originally Posted by NovelMama

We're moving more and more toward the unschooling side of things, and while I'm mostly okay with that, I do get concerned about their study skills. When you do everything to mastery and they know they're going to have unlimited chances to work on things until they've gotten them right, there's not a lot of motivation (or opportunity) to learn how to prepare for an exam - or for anything that requires you to prepare in advance for something so you can "get it right the first time".

At what age do you start working on things like that? AJ is almost 10, but this is only our third year of structured school. I was going to start working on it this year by having her start learning where all the states are and what the capitals are and testing her on those things, but I don't know if it's a too early to have to worry about that.

I don't think of "studying" as just the process of getting already-organized information into long-term memory, but as also including the process of *organizing* raw information . Studying isn't just about memorizing one's notes, but about *making* those notes, figuring out what *to* memorize, in the first place.

Also, I don't think of the skills to "prepare in advance to get something right on the first try" as being *study* skills, but as executive function skills, which are needed in order to effectively prep for *lots* of things in life, not just exams.

Like a pp, I never "studied", in any of those senses . I've a good memory (and am a fast reader), so just reading through the text twice was sufficient to get most everything into my head. And then, instead of organizing all the information *before* I took the test, I was able to organize all that info *through* taking the test. I didn't realize this for years, but it's not just that I *don't* take notes - I actually *cannot* effectively take notes from a text. (Another thing I've realized - not only has my good memory compensated for my actual lack of ability to effectively organize information, my memory (and my mom ) have also compensated for mediocre executive function skills.)

And the "throw everything in my head willy-nilly and organize it in a just-in-time fashion right as I *need* it organized" approach (where oral and writtern discussions replace tests as the thing-that-forces-organization) is becoming increasingly insufficient these days, as the complexity of the material I'm studying increases. And the crappy executive function skills are a hindrance in *lots* of things .

Which is to say, I think you can separate out the ability to *study* - to organize and remember information (with reasonable effort and in a reasonable timeframe) - from the ability to effectively plan ahead and execute that plan . You need to have all three (I do think that all three are very important and worth working on ), but I think you can learn them separately and combine them later on .

Also, exams are one way to *evaluate* learning, but there are plenty of other ways to evaluate learning (essays, papers, presentations, etc.). Plus, studying isn't primarily about the evaluation-of-learning but about the *learning* itself - we study in order to *learn* something of worth. Evaluating the learning isn't the *reason* to learn, but just a way to help ensure that learning has been successfully accomplished. All the studying in order to learn is still worthwhile whether or not there's a formal evaluation.

ETA: I'm not an unschooler, so take this fwiw, but like Katigre, I'd allow a choice of *topic* for learning these skills (if they've got a passion, might as well learn to study by studying in that area ), but not a choice of *whether* to learn them. If there's nothing they care enough about to study, then I'll just pick something (something I think is valuable, or something I'm good at, so that I can effectively teach it).

[BarefootBetsy]

Honestly, I plan to encourage my children to take more classes outside the home as they get into the high school years - especially if they think they want to attend any sort of college or university. That way, if they do decide to attend a college, they will have had opportunities to deal with instructors other than myself in a more structured setting with a topic they're interested in.

Currently we're also part of a weekly co-op so they have semi-structured classes with homework and quizzes and things. They aren't obligated to be part of the co-op and I've let them know that if it stops working for them to let me know and we can stop attending.

I wouldn't really worry about building good study skills until late middle school or high school at the earliest though.... taking out of the house classes can help along the way and classes tend to get more rigorous as the children get older.

[Virginia]

Originally Posted by BarefootBetsy

Honestly, I plan to encourage my children to take more classes outside the home as they get into the high school years - especially if they think they want to attend any sort of college or university. That way, if they do decide to attend a college, they will have had opportunities to deal with instructors other than myself in a more structured setting with a topic they're interested in.

Currently we're also part of a weekly co-op so they have semi-structured classes with homework and quizzes and things. They aren't obligated to be part of the co-op and I've let them know that if it stops working for them to let me know and we can stop attending.

I wouldn't really worry about building good study skills until late middle school or high school at the earliest though.... taking out of the house classes can help along the way and classes tend to get more rigorous as the children get older.

I think study skills need to start being built in middle school. Simple things like mnemonic devices or making flashcards (perhaps with visuals) or putting things to song are appropriate for middle school students. Or writing questions that they think might show up on a test or quiz (tests and quizzes aren't the only way to assess and evaluate student learning, but they're not inherently bad, as some people in education nowadays seem to believe, especially if they have higher level thinking questions on them).

You could teach them to study information in order to be able to answer verbal questions- that's an important life skill to have! I would never go into a presentation I have to do about a topic without being an expert in that topic, ya know?

Even teaching kids how to study for a small chunk of time and then take a break can go a long way. Some kids feel so overwhelmed with studying that they just don't do it, and if it's broken down into manageable pieces, it can be done

Many of my high school students do not understand how to study something beyond merely memorizing it (and sometimes yes, you do just have to memorize information ). So I teach a lot of study skills to them. It would be better if they came to me with at least a fundamental understanding of what already works for them and what doesn't so I could build on that. Are they visual learners? Auditory? Kinesthetic? Combination of a couple?

I am definitely not an unschooler, so you can take what I say with a grain of salt

[Soliloquy]

.I want her to learn that there are times you have to put serious effort into things even though you don't like them, but I don't know how to teach that without implementing testing and grading and stuff that I don't really want to do.

Just a thought ... Have you tried having her earn Minecraft time? My kids currently get 1 hour of tablet/PC play time, 3 times a week. But they have to complete certain tasks first. And if they whine when their time is up they lose their next turn or get reduced time.