Need help dealing with Church Nursery

[Victorious]

There used to be a quote that scrolled across the top, I'm not sure if it's there anymore, but it's my life's quote.

"If God meant for us to save our children, he would have sent a parenting method, not Jesus".

We CAN NOT extinguish sin nature in anyone. If we could-what on earth would we need Jesus for?

[OnAMission]

I think most would agree that spanking is something that ought to be done rarely. So instead of trying to debate spanking vs. not spanking with your husband, I think it is more effective to simply look for other tools. And then, lo and behold, while spanking might technically be an option, you simply choose to use other methods instead. I think that my husband had resolved not to spank, and he never did, even as I was fully convinced it was necessary and did spank our oldest for a brief time. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. The concepts introduced in "get off your butt parenting" are key. In particular, if you are home with your son, then you are making the parenting decisions when you are alone with him, and you just take care of him and teach and don't spank And when your husband is home, you can be vigilant and catch your son before he escalates with difficult behaviors such that your husband, at least most of the time, does not feel that a spanking is necessary. Hard work Exhausting work Worth it? In my opinion, yes!
Your husband can't force you to spank If he were to try, then there are much bigger issues at play.

I am sorry it is hard, and it is hard to feel like you and your husband aren't on the same page. I really don't like that feeling, but there are some things that are worth respectfully maintaining your own thoughts and opinions.

[Kiara.I]

Originally Posted by daina

I have read other interpretations of the rod verses, but my husband read these too and pointed out to me that they're bad exegesis/hermenuetics and I shouldn't trust people who say you shouldn't spank.

I'm on my phone so it's slow typing, so I'll only respond to one point for now.

If your husband is arguing that you need to take the "rod" verses literally, is he also arguing that you need to use a literal rod? Because then we are talking about an object that was large and heavy enough to kill LIONS being used on a toddler. I'm guessing he doesn't want to take that part literally. Right?

So actually, he's already picking and choosing how to interpret those verses. They say NOTHING about "one or two smacks with a hand on the bum of a toddler." To interpret them that way is already to do some very fancy footwork. He just wants you to do the fancy firework the way he thinks it should be done.

Other people disagree that fancy footwork is required and just suggest that they should be interpreted AS PROVERBS. They have valuable meaning but aren't intended to be taken literally word for word. Just as we don't normally recommend that gluttons should literally slit their throats....

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[CelticJourney]

Originally Posted by Kiara.I

....If your husband is arguing that you need to take the "rod" verses literally, is he also arguing that you need to use a literal rod? Because then we are talking about an object that was large and heavy enough to kill LIONS being used on a toddler. I'm guessing he doesn't want to take that part literally. Right?

... suggest that they should be interpreted AS PROVERBS. They have valuable meaning but aren't intended to be taken literally word for word. Just as we don't normally recommend that gluttons should literally slit their throats.....

You can also do some reading on the Hebrew meaning of the words involved in those verses. The 'rod' in question was, as was mentioned, large. It was the symbol of authority AND it was used to guide the people....like literally held up when they were traveling so everyone could see the way to go. The verse is saying 'if you withhold your teachings/guidence/directions from your children they will suffer'.

But yes, if you are in a more fundamentalist/ Train Up Your Child culture, you will stuggle. Totally worth it by the way. Fight the good fight for your children.

[graciousmomma]

If you need some good examples of Christians who weren't spanked/didn't spank, and produced great fruit, I have two suggestions of people to look into.

Corrie Ten Boom has an amazing testimony, and has ministered to millions, and her family saved countless people from the holocaust. She was never spanked, but grew into a wonderfully godly, inspirational woman.

Another person who comes to mind is Sally Clarkson. She is a homeschooling mother who has an amazing ministry ministering to other mothers, who has successful grown, godly children who were not spanked. I highly recommend her books and her ministry!

A lot of the other mothers have posted good things before I read this thread, so I just wanted to recommend the testimony of those two awesome ladies

[FlyingBlueKiwi]

Originally Posted by CelticJourney

You can also do some reading on the Hebrew meaning of the words involved in those verses.

Another one is the word certain versions translate as "child" is Na'ar. Na'ar in other portions of the Bible almost always refers to a youth. For example, David was a Na'ar when he fought Goliath.

Also, Solomon, author of the Proverbs, lived in a culture where fathers had little or nothing to do with raising children until roughly age six, when fathers *began* to have a role in the raising of the boys. So as a practical matter, *nothing* in the Proverbs, which speak from Solomon to "my son" would have anything to do with children under that age.

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

Honestly, this is of greater concern to me.

Originally Posted by daina

Additionally, my husband has begun bible college at a small local Independent Baptist College. Part of me is really nervous and fearful about it because of the pressure that is put on the children and families of Pastors and those who are in ministry to have 'submissive children' (1 Tim 3:4).

How much input did you get into his attending this school? He seems to be making choices (first church, now college) that ignore your comfort level.

[daina]

Originally Posted by FlyingBlueKiwi

How much input did you get into his attending this school? He seems to be making choices (first church, now college) that ignore your comfort level.

The thing is, 6 months ago, I was all for our church and its denomination. Since then, I have learned many lessons, and my views have somewhat shifted. I now question it a lot mpre and I am more skeptical(which has been a bit detrimental)... A few months ago, I was encouraging my husband to go to this school. Our pastor is one of the professors, and my husband pretty much gets close to free tuition. I do feel that my husband has a call on his life for ministry, which is why I encouragdd him.

A lot happened when I posted here to GCM because the idea of gentle discipline and of the possibility of OTHER ways to interpret sceipture apart from the 'traditional' way made me question if there are other things that the church teaches which may be just 'off'. So whereas i used to think that the IFB way was the IT, I've been having a harder time going along with that now.

Overall I have been having a hard time submitting to the authority of my church since I have been lacking full trust. About the time when I made this post a few months back, my husband contacted our pastor for advice because I was so wound up and confused, and the Pastor mentioned that he has observed an 'unhealthy attachment' between my son and I. It has been hard for me to forgive thos statement, as it makes me feel judged that my choice of how I want to parent my child(AP) puts me at odds with what others might consider healthy parenting.

The good thing is, however, we may have to move out of state in the Summer, so God could change our direction.

I am really sorry that I am spilling all of my issues out here, and for sharing all these problems. I just cant go a day lately without having so many questions about God's will in my life for how He would have me raise and train up my children.

i see just from hearing myself speak that I have a lot of fears, and am approaching many things out of fear rather than faith and love (1 John 4:18).

Maybe if i take a leap of faith and read more about how to implement GBD I can feel more confident in making this choice.

---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------

Originally Posted by CelticJourney

But yes, if you are in a more fundamentalist/ Train Up Your Child culture, you will stuggle. Totally worth it by the way. Fight the good fight for your children.

Yep, that's just it... This is the culture I am in, and right now I see no way out(except for fervent prayer... something I admit I have not yet set diligently to). I get confused because I believe in my heart one way, but the culture around me is doing something else. It makes me not want to go to other families in my church for parenting advice, because I am leary of what direction they might point me.

Even the mother's group at my church is beginning a new bible study about child training, and I am thinking I will not attend, even though I attended all the meetings last year. I just dont really want to hear whatever this book has to teach.

[Maedchen]

I am really tired, so I hope I get these 2 points out correctly.

1. God does not give the Spirit of FEAR. Fear comes from the enemy. God gives peace.<3


2. God saw fit to place your son in YOUR and your Husband's lives.........not te preacher, the soloist, the butcher, the baker or the candlestick maker.

God entrusted his care and love and guidance to you and your husband............. When you were joined together and you were pronounced Mr. & Mrs, it didn't enclude and the Rev to tell you how to live in your marriage from moment to moment. <3

Yes, we have leaders that bring and expound the messages,but they are not your dictator. That is putting a yoke on your marriage and God doesn't do that in scripture. Is said you are to cling to each other.


I hope that comes out as I intended and doesn't sound like I am preaching from any judgement. That took me years to learn and many tears to believe.

[MegMarch]

You mentioned the authority of your church. What kind of authority are you expected to submit to within your church?

On spanking - you can spank/frighten/hurt people into following your instructions and rules. But that is not the same as them choosing to obey, to trust, to follow. Those are the things I hope my children will be doing when they relate to God. There are so many ways to teach children what is expected and to hold them to those standards. Fear doesn't have to be involved and is counterproductive anyhow. Someone facing fear has much less ability to to reason and make good choices.

[daina]

Originally Posted by MegMarch

You mentioned the authority of your church. What kind of authority are you expected to submit to within your church?.

Based on Heb 13:17, there is a general expectation for the congregation to respect and obey the church leadership. I've never seen this abused, or anyone expected to do anything out of balance or extreme in our churcn. But just yesterday, my husband came home from class and oir pastor(his professor) taught about the "umbrella of protection", meaning that when you submit to the authority God has putnin place(government, church leadership, husbands, parents, teachers, etc..) you are under God's protection, but if you do not submit to that authority and do not submit, you are leaving the umbrella of prootection. I think probably the church leaders would expect a submission to spiritual things, such as core doctrine, though we do have the liberty to disagree on minor doctrines. Those who serve in ministry in the church are held to higher standards, though, just as an employee would be held to certain standards of dress and conduct.

[Katigre]

Originally Posted by daina

taught about the "umbrella of protection", meaning that when you submit to the authority God has putnin place(government, church leadership, husbands, parents, teachers, etc..) you are under God's protection, but if you do not submit to that authority and do not submit, you are leaving the umbrella of prootection.

This is a key teaching of IBLP and Bill Gothard. Does your church/seminary subscribe to his teachings?

[FlyingBlueKiwi]

Originally Posted by Katigre

This is a key teaching of IBLP and Bill Gothard. Does your church/seminary subscribe to his teachings?

If they do, you should research it yourself. Gothard, who put the IBLP system in place is, among other things, a sexual predator of young girls and women.

[daina]

Originally Posted by Katigre

This is a key teaching of IBLP and Bill Gothard. Does your church/seminary subscribe to his teachings?

No. I've never heard of this IBLP or Bill Gothard.

[Katigre]

Originally Posted by daina

No. I've never heard of this IBLP or Bill Gothard.

They're IFB-type groups that used to have teachings all over the US and world (they still do, but have shrunk quite a bit in the past decade due to declining membership and scandals).

---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------

Here's a quick summary and rebuttal: http://midwestoutreach.org/2014/04/0...rds-teachings/

[daina]

I am reading Laurie Morgan's series right now on spanking and getting a lot of questions answered. The difficult part is being on different pages with my husband on the issue, but I agree with what one of you have mentioned... sometimes its bettrr to just quietly maintain your own position, to live it out and show that it works.