Article about Christians spanking wives

[TenderLovingWillow]

It doesn't sit right.

<edit due to public forum>

[Can'tTurnLeft]

I think that a woman who is emotionally stunted due to her understanding of marriage, family, and the role of a husband and father in a family is not able to make a true choice. Women who are making that choice from a place of abuse aren't making the choice.

I think the issue of "power" in the sexual relationship is fascinating.

[SewingGreenMama]

TenderLovingWillow and others said it much better then I could. I was struggling putting words to it.


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[BarefootBetsy]

I do think that sometimes Christians who are uncomfortable with their kinks will couch it in religion so that they don't feel so icky about it. That's what I mean by consensual: if it's really a consensual kink, no matter how it's dressed up, then I don't have a problem with that at all. What consenting adults do with other consenting adults in their bedrooms and lives is really none of my concern

I think that actual DD that's based on religion/patriarchy is religious abuse and is, by definition, coercive.

FTR, and in the interest of full disclosure, I've read a great deal about kinks because I'm interested in the phenomenon from a sociological/psychological perspective, but I'm about as vanilla as they come so I don't have any personal experience in the "scene" or anything.

[Chaos Coordinator]

I think it's spiritual abuse in the very least. Even if the woman agrees to be hit, she does so out of a belief that her mistake can be corrected through punishment.

[rjy9343]

I am on the fence with dd. I was involved in a very similar lifestyle and do know how easy it is to blur lines and also never saw anyone else in it that was in a good place health wise. Given how unhealthy I was at that time, that is saying something. It does not foster a healthy and loving relationship. Yes, the subs do have a lot of power, but they don't really have a voice. When you have someone who is more or less owned, you have completely upset the balance of a healthy relationship. You also distort the views of relationships.
The pp that said that you can't stay at entry level is right. At some point you have to up the ante and that never ends. Once you start getting creative, you start to lose sight of the person. That person becomes an object for gratification. In a lot of ways the relationship is a game.
My biggest problem with CDD is that once you start calling it God's will or some how using scripture to justify that sort of thing, you are blurring a lot of lines. It sets up so many ways for all forms of abuse to creep in without ever realizing it. I don't think that the couples that practice this lifestyle ever intend to abuse or stay locked into childhood, but that is what happens. For one side, becoming a responsible adult with opinions and thoughts is not safe. For the other side, being safe is not really an option because you have to be in charge.

[ArmsOfLove]

a few years ago I read some writings from a preacher who was advocating for CDD and I will say this . . . if you buy the Biblical justifications for spanking children then there is no way to argue against spanking wives. The logic is simply taking it to the next level. Spanking is either what God put in place for dealing with disobedience from those under your authority, or it isn't.

[rjy9343]

I stumbled onto one of those sites a few years back and AOL is right. The exact wording was God did not give authority without a way to back it up. If you believe that obedience is compliance and that you are mandated by God to make it happen, then spanking your wife is a very logical conclusion.

[hollybells]

Originally Posted by Chaos Coordinator

I think it's spiritual abuse in the very least. Even if the woman agrees to be hit, she does so out of a belief that her mistake can be corrected through punishment.

And if I'm not mistaken (it's been a few years since I read about it), some women feel the need to provoke a spanking (I think it's called "bratting") when they feel overwhelmed with guilt and need the release that comes from being spanked.

[Chaos Coordinator]

sounds like an off-shoot of masochism. cutters and other self-harmers use self-inflicted pain as an emotional release, as well.

---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

except in this case, the masochist or person seeking the emotional release is STILL dependent on another person to gratify it

[hollybells]

I *think* it was a spiritual release (probably emotional, too though) that they were going for in some cases. You know, your sins have been forgiven now.

[Chaos Coordinator]

which is what makes it not doctrinally sound, and because it's actually being used to harm and manipulate and abuse the woman, then it steps into spiritual abuse.

being spanked is not what absolves you of your sin.

[DoulaClara]

Originally Posted by rjy9343

I am on the fence with dd. I was involved in a very similar lifestyle and do know how easy it is to blur lines and also never saw anyone else in it that was in a good place health wise. Given how unhealthy I was at that time, that is saying something. It does not foster a healthy and loving relationship. Yes, the subs do have a lot of power, but they don't really have a voice. When you have someone who is more or less owned, you have completely upset the balance of a healthy relationship. You also distort the views of relationships.
The pp that said that you can't stay at entry level is right. At some point you have to up the ante and that never ends. Once you start getting creative, you start to lose sight of the person. That person becomes an object for gratification. In a lot of ways the relationship is a game.
My biggest problem with CDD is that once you start calling it God's will or some how using scripture to justify that sort of thing, you are blurring a lot of lines. It sets up so many ways for all forms of abuse to creep in without ever realizing it. I don't think that the couples that practice this lifestyle ever intend to abuse or stay locked into childhood, but that is what happens. For one side, becoming a responsible adult with opinions and thoughts is not safe. For the other side, being safe is not really an option because you have to be in charge.

By lifestyle, do you mean involved in CDD, or something else? Unhealthy behavior in a non-Christian BDSM lifestyle isn't representative of that lifestyle, either. Not all kink is abusive, but not everything that calls itself BDSM is actually healthy.

Anything that tells me that this is the true view of a Biblical marriage, and if we're not doing it we're doing it wrong, and doesn't have any scriptural backing, is spiritual abuse, period. The churches and the people who promote CDD, promote it as THE way, IME.

[ArmsOfLove]

Originally Posted by Chaos Coordinator

which is what makes it not doctrinally sound, and because it's actually being used to harm and manipulate and abuse the woman, then it steps into spiritual abuse.

being spanked is not what absolves you of your sin.

Right. Absolutely! But in the history of spankings this was a major playing belief for years.

There were sects of monks who believed it and were spanked by their head monk (there are paintings on the walls of the cave they lived in); women being spanked by priests (when the Catholic church was little c catholic); there is a scene in a movie about English royalty where the princess (I think it's Helena Bonham Carter) has to "assume the position" to be caned. And all of it was based on the premise that spanking absolves you of your sins.

Just like the Pearls and Ezzo teach. That's how Pearl teaches that you can be presented to Jesus for salvation without the taint of your sin.

And the argument is the same for people under the authority of whatever head.

These are some of the logical conclusions that people want to balk at when I try to point out the danger of certain doctrines. "People don't do that" really isn't a doctrinal clincher for me - especially when I know that people DO do that.

If you believe that those under authority are required to submit to spankings then there is NOTHING in Scripture preventing that idea from being applied to wives. And the arguments are strong. You literally have to reject the entire premise in order to throw out the idea, because if you accept the premise of spankings, you're sunk.

[deena]

The website I read with instructions made it pretty clear it wasn't kinky because you are supposed to continue until she cries or you think her reaction is satisfactory. (shameless plug: I put it in my book, see: siggie).

I have to admit that I have a spanking fetish. And that's just another argument against the practice of childhood discipline spanking because my fetish is 100% rooted in that trauma.