Laura Ingles Wilder

[ValiantJoy07]

I love her books! But I'm surprised- growing up I never noticed all the stuff because the way they were raised was normal to me. Now I've been reading them to dd's when I need to rest after a bad night. We close ourselves up in the bedroom and the girls play and I lay down and read.

I feel so sad for children in that time- for people in general. I mean there were definitely some perks compared to now...But it just seems like so much of lifes JOY was sucked out becuase of culteral rules (and legalism_.

Like in Silver Creek she can't run through the fields barefoot any more because she's 12 (or 13?) and too old.

And the shaming!!! I don't like to read those parts to the girls (I often go silent and read on my own when the girls are ingrossed in some thing else they're doing) because it's just so sad the way the parents did things. Like in Little House in the Big Woods Ma tells the girls to go meet their aunt on the road and ask her which she likes better brown or golden hair- probably a silly joke in Ma's mind but seems kinda mean.
And then that night Laura was so upset about the gold vs brown haired thing she slaps Mary in the face because Mary rubs it in () and then Pa spanks her for slapping. Other things like telling the children to stop crying becuase crying is bad etc.Though I do appreciate the grace Pa shows at time too- there were times where Laura did things that would have -in that time- "deserved" a spanking and yet Pa would cuddle Laura close and tell a silly teaching story instead.

I don't know I guess I'm processing. Trying to decide how I'll read these books out loud when the girls get older- wonder if dd's will be head at a lot of it. (I hope they are!) Thoughts- do you avoid punitive books? or use them for discussion tools?

Originally Posted by ValiantJoy07

I love her books! But I'm surprised- growing up I never noticed all the stuff because the way they were raised was normal to me. Now I've been reading them to dd's when I need to rest after a bad night. We close ourselves up in the bedroom and the girls play and I lay down and read.

I feel so sad for children in that time- for people in general. I mean there were definitely some perks compared to now...But it just seems like so much of lifes JOY was sucked out becuase of culteral rules (and legalism_.

Like in Silver Creek she can't run through the fields barefoot any more because she's 12 (or 13?) and too old.

And the shaming!!! I don't like to read those parts to the girls (I often go silent and read on my own when the girls are ingrossed in some thing else they're doing) because it's just so sad the way the parents did things. Like in Little House in the Big Woods Ma tells the girls to go meet their aunt on the road and ask her which she likes better brown or golden hair- probably a silly joke in Ma's mind but seems kinda mean.
And then that night Laura was so upset about the gold vs brown haired thing she slaps Mary in the face because Mary rubs it in () and then Pa spanks her for slapping. Other things like telling the children to stop crying becuase crying is bad etc.Though I do appreciate the grace Pa shows at time too- there were times where Laura did things that would have -in that time- "deserved" a spanking and yet Pa would cuddle Laura close and tell a silly teaching story instead.

I don't know I guess I'm processing. Trying to decide how I'll read these books out loud when the girls get older- wonder if dd's will be head at a lot of it. (I hope they are!) Thoughts- do you avoid punitive books? or use them for discussion tools?

I like the books. The hair thing I see from a different perspective- Ma noticed that Laura was sad her hair was brown instead of blonde like Mary's, so she got her to ask the aunt, who of course said she liked both kinds. Trying to make her feel better.

It was a different time, and it was a very harsh life.

I read them with our two oldest, but have decided they are too sad to read to my last three.

Your so right too, it seems like all the kids had to grow up so fast.


I guess you can call them History books, and point out to DC how sad it was back then. The only thing for me would be, my kids see that there is allot of those ways still about...living in the bible belt and all. *sigh*

[PurpleButterfly]

I use them as discussion opportunities....our first encounter w/this was doing FIAR w/ds and reading, "The Story of Ping" where the little duckling was spanked for being last in line. My ds was four at the time and we talked about how unfair and sad that was. Now at almost 10 yo, if we encounter this (like in, "Farmer Boy" also by L.I.W.) he is the first to acknowledge it by saying something like, "Thank you God that I have kind parents!"

I have always addressed it when we came across it, then asked if it is something we think Jesus would do or want us to do.

On a grown up level...I just finished an otherwise excellent book by Lori Wick, "Cassidy"...so so disappointing to read about a young family letting a baby CIO and scolding themselves for "training her to be held all the time". She even had a comment about how it was dishonoring to God to let a 2 yo think they were the center of the universe because it didn't leave room in their hearts for God to be the center. Um, child development education, anyone? This is the second time I've seen this in her books and now I remember why I avoided her for so long.

[Sparrow]

subbing

[lmgeenw]

We read them and discuss them.

[mwwr]

I generally like them, and we have read them all, but I am much more sensitive to the punitive than I once was. Sometimes the TV version is even worse. Pa is often settling a disagreement with another adult by punching him. True to the time perhaps, but not so great.

OTOH, be glad that your kids notice the harshness and recoil. When I was a kid, up until, say, my thirties, I thought nothing of it. Seemed pretty normal to me.

[Aerynne]

I noticed the same thing. My take on it is that that kind of parenting helped prepare kids to live in that kind of world. Fortunately, we don't live in a world that harsh, so we don't have to parent like that. I think it's a great springboard for discussion.

[ValiantJoy07]

Originally Posted by PurpleButterfly

I use them as discussion opportunities....our first encounter w/this was doing FIAR w/ds and reading, "The Story of Ping" where the little duckling was spanked for being last in line. My ds was four at the time and we talked about how unfair and sad that was. Now at almost 10 yo, if we encounter this (like in, "Farmer Boy" also by L.I.W.) he is the first to acknowledge it by saying something like, "Thank you God that I have kind parents!"

I have always addressed it when we came across it, then asked if it is something we think Jesus would do or want us to do.

On a grown up level...I just finished an otherwise excellent book by Lori Wick, "Cassidy"...so so disappointing to read about a young family letting a baby CIO and scolding themselves for "training her to be held all the time". She even had a comment about how it was dishonoring to God to let a 2 yo think they were the center of the universe because it didn't leave room in their hearts for God to be the center. Um, child development education, anyone? This is the second time I've seen this in her books and now I remember why I avoided her for so long.

Thanks for sharing that about Lori Wick- I loved her booksa few years ago- but they started to get annoying- I think she gets preachier and preachier with every book. Or maybe I've outgrown them. I do enjoy Sophies Heart I won't admit how many times I've read that one. I don't think that one has any thing negative in it- but some of her books make me well not THAT angry but just kind of- annoyed.
I remember the story of ping...I always thought it was kind of sad- even as a child I didn't like that book. I think I will for now, skip over the punitive stuff till dd's are old enough for us to discuss it- I also skip the descriptions of the animals being skinned and cooked etc. I'm not even a vegitarian and those parts make me a leetle

[PurpleButterfly]

Loved Sophie's Heart!! Bamboo and Lace was a fun one...I've read dozens of her books and fortunately it's not too prevelent but still disappointing, and yes, seems to get bolder/preachier. I will be moving along to other Christian fiction authors despite lots of unread Lori Wick at my library.

[Synesthesia]

I've noticed that every since I decided I want to be a parent, I am more sensitive to parenting in books and shows.
I watched an episode of little house where there was this dude who was a little person and his wife died and he said, "She'll be too big to spank." and I thought GOOD. Also that woman who owns a store was so mean to that poor guy. Every time he tried to get a job she'd go, "ew, I don't want him working here."
Man, she was mean!

[Treenahurricane]

I noticed the paddling and "children seen & not heard" a few nights ago when reading the Little House in the Big Woods to my girls. I never had absorbed it much, but I was paddled and belted while growing up, so it seemed a normal thing. I've read the books dozens upon dozens of times. I am staying true to the literature, though, and reading it in its entirety to my kids. For Grace, we are using it as part of discussing history and farm life. I don't skip over the animal preparation/hunting parts either (my husband used to hunt prior to us getting married, my FIL still does) because I want my kids to make the connection of where we get our food (and why it shouldn't be wasted carelessly!)

I guess I just see so much more wealth of knowledge and value in books like the Laura Ingalls Wilder's writings to set it aside because her parents were punitive to her. It was a very different culture and she was writing what it was like in retrospect in a way that is enjoyable for most and easy to read for a lot of young people. My husband is even reading it for the first time ever with us (he never read it while growing up) and finds it interesting.... which is rather surprising because my husband doesn't really ever read fiction or that type of writing.

[Firebird Rising]

I think the later ones are better. We started the house in the big woods and I skipped through the detailed butchering part (we're vegetarian) and the spanking part. Then, we read The Long Winter and we LOVED that. I think that after Mary went blind, Laura mentions less of being envious of her. We're now on The Shores of Silver Lake and like it pretty much. After this, we're probably going to do Farmer Boy and then the last two books.

BTW, my kids are 4 yrs and 22 months and both are boys. Cameron's (4) favorite part so far was Almonzo and Cap Garland going out in the snow to get wheat.

Jen D.

[Zooey]

You know, I have read that L.I.W. put that story of the spanking in, but told her publisher that the reason she remembered it so clearly, is because it was the only spanking that she ever had.
And I thought, "Wow, in that time & place?".....I honestly don't remember if any other spankings are in the other books, but if so, they were added fictionally, because Wilder had told the publishers that her mother had never spanked her, & her father just the once. (She didn't want to put it in at all, but the publisher inssisted).
So, the Ingalls were way ahead of their times in that way. Which is a good thing to talk about when discussing the books, I think.

[Sparrow]

There was an article that Rose (her daughter) had wrote (in The Little House Sampler) that had said that Laura was well advanced for her time and had decided that she would not spank. Rose did say her mother went back on that, but I think it was just the times.

One thing that is said over and over is that Ma was so gentle and so kind. I think she only raised her voice once, and it was because she was being firm about not moving again.

The parts where girls were shamed for crying kind of bug me. I remember thinking as a kid "Man, I'd be so toasted if I lived back then".

Oh, and the blacksnake whip in Farmer Boy?

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

Originally Posted by fireshifter

BTW, my kids are 4 yrs and 22 months and both are boys. Cameron's (4) favorite part so far was Almonzo and Cap Garland going out in the snow to get wheat.

Jen D.

I am SO reading these to my boys too!