Random Quotes from Wise Mamas |
br>
|
GD Info and FAQs *Public* The new home for most of the GD stickies. :) |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#1 |
Rose Garden
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Why thank you, it is naturally blue...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,278
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
I'd like to discuss this. I have seen the question of whether something is punitive or not come up freqently the forum lately. This post is not directed at any particular thread/poster/discussion, but rather is a topic I think is relevant to discuss separately. Onto my thoughts...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It seems to me that parents struggling with GBD often ask discipline questions in the context of whether something is punitive vs. gentle. Often, this question is a result of parents feeling unsure how to evaluate their response to unwanted behavior. They believe that 'punitive is bad' and 'gentle is good', but don't have a clear working definition for how to evaluate discipline choices in the light of those values. This dilemna seems to leads to a permissive-punitive swing as they try to 'be gentle' which becomes 'i have no tools to enforce boundaries if the kids don't agree'. When things are pushed far enough, the parent reacts with a harsh consequence born out of frustration rather than a deliberate choice in teaching. This back and forth scenario is very confusing and difficult for both parent and child to navigate, and leads to the worst kind of behavior for everyone. Without a consistent pattern of interaction established in the home, no one knows what to expect or how to adjust. It also leads to misunderstandings of how GBD works. I personally find the question 'Is this punitive or not?' to be unhelpful in figuring out GBD responses to misbehavior. Equally, 'Is this gentle?' can lead to the thinking that anything spoken in a firm voice or enforced physically (such as carrying a tantruming child out of a store) is 'ungentle'. In the midst of problem solving, this specific question ('punitive or gentle?') can block proactive brainstorming and finding strategies for connecting with our children and teaching them. Instead, when I am approaching a situation with the kids, I focus on these types of questions when problem solving (let's take the issue of siblings fighting over a toy): "What response teaches/enforces healthy boundaries?" "Will this response help keep everyone safe?" "What values do I want to teach in this situation?" (respect, patience, kindness, etc...)" "Will my response teach them a pattern for how to act in the future?" Those questions are proactive and encourage me to think through GBD in a positive way (not as a reaction against being punitive, but in positively choosing it as the best option for my family). The purpose of this forum is to equip parents with tools - not just practical tools for managing XYZ unpleasant behavior, but also proactive tools for the parent so that they become established in a GBD paradigm. I think figuring out how to rephrase the 'is this punitive?' question into something that promotes more immediate problem solving is an important tool (at least it is for me with my kids). Last edited by Katigre; 03-05-2011 at 12:23 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 104 Users Say Thank You to Katigre For This Useful Post: | 3boysforme (03-05-2011), Allison (03-05-2011), allisonintx (03-06-2011), Amahoro (06-10-2011), Amazement (03-05-2011), Annainprogress (03-06-2011), ArmsOfLove (03-05-2011), BarefootBetsy (03-05-2011), bec28 (03-05-2011), Blue-EyedLady (03-05-2011), Calee (03-05-2011), Can'tTurnLeft (03-05-2011), cbmk4 (03-05-2011), chasingbutterflies (03-05-2011), ClassicMom (03-05-2011), curlymopmom (03-09-2011), DaltonsMomma (03-06-2011), Damselfly (03-07-2011), delightedmama (03-14-2011), domesticzookeeper (03-05-2011), DoulaClara (03-09-2011), Drew (07-19-2011), duckwithoneleg (03-09-2011), dulce de leche (03-05-2011), Ellen (03-05-2011), Emerald Orchid (06-28-2011), erinee (03-13-2011), FebFaith (03-06-2011), filmgirl2911 (07-19-2011), gdzprncess (06-10-2011), GentleMomof4 (03-06-2011), gentletitus2mama (03-09-2011), gpsings (03-05-2011), GranolanRainbows (06-12-2011), greenjellysnakes (07-20-2011), hopeforchange (07-19-2011), jandjmommy (03-12-2011), jewelmcjem (06-10-2011), jklmommy (03-10-2011), joanna (08-30-2011), Joyanne (03-05-2011), joyinthejourney (06-20-2011), katiekind (03-06-2011), keepinghome (05-10-2014), kwisie (03-05-2011), Leen (03-05-2011), LilySue (06-11-2011), luvinmama (08-29-2011), Maggie (03-06-2011), Maggirayne (03-09-2011), mamacanuck (03-06-2011), mariposa (03-05-2011), MarynMunchkins (03-05-2011), MaybeGracie (03-05-2011), melliethepooh (03-06-2011), mokamoto (06-11-2011), mollobe (03-05-2011), mountainash (03-07-2011), NewCovenantMama (03-07-2011), NewLeaf (03-09-2011), notjustashley (03-07-2011), passthemanna (03-05-2011), PDX Mommy (03-08-2011), Pearl In Oyster (03-05-2011), PrincessAnika (06-11-2011), Proverbs31 (03-05-2011), racheepoo (03-05-2011), RachelB (03-05-2011), raining_kisses (03-06-2011), rjy9343 (03-05-2011), Rose5000 (03-09-2011), runningmama (09-03-2011), Sakura (03-09-2011), saturnfire16 (03-05-2011), SewingGreenMama (06-10-2012), shirelingmum (06-30-2012), Sparrow (03-06-2011), StewardofLOs (03-09-2011), Stiina (03-05-2011), Stonebeck Farm (03-06-2011), SuperDudesMama (08-10-2011), SweetCaroline (03-05-2011), sweetpeasmommy (03-05-2011), Tandem mama (07-19-2011), Tasmanian Saint (03-12-2011), teamommy (03-05-2011), TenderLovingWillow (03-07-2011), Teribear (03-07-2011), tigerlily (03-05-2011), tnaallen (06-08-2011), TraceMama (03-05-2011), Vicki_T (03-09-2011), Virginia (06-11-2011), WanderingJuniper (06-11-2011), WingsOfTheMorning (03-05-2011), zak (03-06-2011) |
![]() |
#2 |
Rose Garden
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Eastern CA
Posts: 9,119
![]() |
![]()
Can't find the lightbulb smilie, but OH! I wonder if that is where my dh struggles.
![]() ![]()
__________________
~Emily INTJ, Type 4 Wife to D ![]() Mama to: E 12/05 L 7/08 Z 12/10 A 6/14 and J in heaven 2/10 ![]() Torah Keeping, Unschooling Family My blog on unschooling and family life: Peace On Dark Nights. |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to saturnfire16 For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
#3 |
Rose Trellis
![]() Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,963
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
I like this line of thought.
Perhaps the core question is more about, "What do I want to accomplish?" I don't really know... Sometimes I think, "Who's side am I on?" (If I'm on 'my side' feeling like the child is the problem, that's a warning to me -- but if I'm on 'the child's side' working against the problem for their sake, that's OK even if they don't like it or don't see it that way.) I think a core skill of GBD is the ability to see ourselves clearly and be honest with ourselves when looking at our motives. Because I can justify things if I want to, and so can anyone else -- saying, "I'm acting this way for their own good" -- but a grace-motivated parent has to be able to face the reality that that's not always true, take note of those situations as mistakes (without falling into self condemnation) and work forward with their eyes open, as a learner... it's tough. It helps if you come from a theological place that emphasises an incarnational view of ministry. (Meaning: the indwelling Spirit is doing the ministry, and we provide the 'flesh' to enact it as His co-worker.)
__________________
Everything written here is the musing and mumblings of an ordinary person. Even if I take myself too seriously, there's no reason for any of you to make the same mistake! Pam, 35 yo ![]() Christian for 20 y ![]() Married for 15 y ![]() Mother to "J" ![]() ![]() INTJ, DYT 4, Canadian ![]() 1 more class until I'm done at Seminary ![]() Adjunct Faculty at a Bible College |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 23 Users Say Thank You to bolt. For This Useful Post: | Annainprogress (03-06-2011), arctic oak (03-05-2011), CarissaJoy (03-14-2011), cbmk4 (03-05-2011), ClassicMom (03-05-2011), curlymopmom (03-09-2011), Domina (06-11-2011), Emerald Orchid (06-28-2011), gdzprncess (06-10-2011), gpsings (03-05-2011), NewLeaf (03-09-2011), passthemanna (03-05-2011), PrincessAnika (06-11-2011), ProudMommaof2 (03-09-2011), rjy9343 (03-05-2011), Sakura (03-09-2011), shirelingmum (06-30-2012), Tasmanian Saint (03-12-2011), TenderLovingWillow (03-07-2011), The Tickle Momster (08-29-2011), Vicki_T (03-09-2011), Virginia (06-11-2011) |
![]() |
#4 |
Rose Garden
![]() ![]() ORANGE you glad I made a new avatar? :D
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,084
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() God knows I need this...I have such a struggle exerting authority anyway without knowing what is punitive and what is not... |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following User Says Thank You to gpsings For This Useful Post: | shirelingmum (06-30-2012) |
![]() |
#5 |
Administrator
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() "air-mannah Leen-dah" it means Sister Linda in Spanish
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 51,860
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
__________________
![]() My pages: Why Not Train A Child? ![]() ![]() Read about how my husband was Pulled From The River By God ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hermana Linda For This Useful Post: | curlymopmom (03-09-2011), saturnfire16 (03-05-2011) |
![]() |
#6 |
Rose Garden
![]() The Lion Cub
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern Arizona
Posts: 10,798
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]()
__________________
Mama to The Engineer (7 yo) "When I grow up, I'm going to build Highway 100!"
The Imaginative Adventurer (4.5 yo) "I'm going to rescue you!" and The Lion Cub (1 yo)- Smart, cute, strong, and unstoppable! ![]() Sister to BlessedBlue forever ![]() Co-Founder and Lead Writer at Food Allergies On Ice |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Rose Garden
![]() ![]() a little Attachment Parenting will fix that
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,981
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
this is good.
i know im personally so polluted with the punitive mindset, its hard for me to apply these totally different concepts practically..they make sense in my mind but then theres this lack of confidence and im worried i'll blow it and ruin my kids ![]() i guess thats what we're all scared of?
__________________
Gently mothering 5 babes one day at a time, only by the help of my Lord - ages 11,6,5, 4, & 2 ![]() Nonviolence is not sterile passivity, but a powerful moral force which makes for social transformation.ISFP |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to SweetCaroline For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
#8 |
Rose Blossom
![]() ![]() ![]() "...like trees planted by streams of water" Psalm 1
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 299
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]()
__________________
Alison- wife to my best friend since 2001, mother to four boys (2005, 2008, 2014 and 2016 and my girl in the middle (2010). |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Rose Trellis
![]() Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,963
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
I guess I take comfort in the fact that kids are very hard to "ruin" -- the resilient little creatures have grown up in coal mines and wartimes, famines and medieval times...
Certainly we can enhance their experiences, their pschology, and their habits of character -- but I think it takes actual neglegence or malice (and plenty of it) to truly ruin children. I think of GBD as a great way to maximize what I can contribute to the lives of my kids, but I refuse to live in the fear of accidentally doing them some kind of great and irreperable harm.
__________________
Everything written here is the musing and mumblings of an ordinary person. Even if I take myself too seriously, there's no reason for any of you to make the same mistake! Pam, 35 yo ![]() Christian for 20 y ![]() Married for 15 y ![]() Mother to "J" ![]() ![]() INTJ, DYT 4, Canadian ![]() 1 more class until I'm done at Seminary ![]() Adjunct Faculty at a Bible College |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 26 Users Say Thank You to bolt. For This Useful Post: | Annainprogress (03-06-2011), Bumblebee (03-06-2011), cbmk4 (03-06-2011), Damselfly (03-07-2011), domesticzookeeper (03-05-2011), Domina (06-11-2011), Emerald Orchid (06-28-2011), gdzprncess (06-10-2011), gpsings (03-09-2011), hopeforchange (07-19-2011), katiekind (03-06-2011), kwisie (03-09-2011), L-Boogie (03-06-2011), La Loba (03-06-2011), ProudMommaof2 (03-09-2011), rjy9343 (03-06-2011), Sakura (03-09-2011), SweetCaroline (03-05-2011), Taedareth (01-09-2012), Tasmanian Saint (03-12-2011), Teribear (03-07-2011), Virginia (06-11-2011) |
![]() |
#10 | |
Rose Garden
![]() ![]() a little Attachment Parenting will fix that
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,981
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
the set of principals that gentle discipline is based on are clear and solid to me, so i dont doubt them at all. but, anyway. its like wearing a chicken suit and walking backwards all day- it just still feels foreign to me sometimes. like i have no idea what im doing. ![]()
__________________
Gently mothering 5 babes one day at a time, only by the help of my Lord - ages 11,6,5, 4, & 2 ![]() Nonviolence is not sterile passivity, but a powerful moral force which makes for social transformation.ISFP |
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SweetCaroline For This Useful Post: | Domina (06-11-2011), ProudMommaof2 (03-09-2011) |
The Following User Says they are praying for SweetCaroline: | Rose5000 (03-09-2011) |
![]() |
#11 | |
Rose Garden
![]() They need freedom to just be fluffy mashed potatoes and feel their fluffy feelings.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Up to my earballs in little boys.
Posts: 20,259
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
this exactly. some of us have minds that have been so poisoned that we really just can't tell the difference anymore and are trying to feel our way through this with the help of other gcm'ers. we really dont know where the line is drawn, what that line looks like or how to recognize it. when we ask "is this punitive" its because we honestly can't tell. everything is so mixed up. its hard to have relationships with full grown adults sometimes, nevermind very very small young people. its not because we are "missing the point" its because we just dont know up from down and we need someone who DOES get it to help us find our way through.
__________________
Joy Progressive Methodist Enfp mama to Sparrow, 10 Zion, 7.5 Baby Gus, 4.5 Preschool teacher. Musician. Timelord. Www.justicemercymayhem.wordpress.com "What you plant in the kingdom will surely grow, and what you grow with love will surely bloom, and the fruit of the spirit will come back to you." Last edited by Chaos Coordinator; 03-05-2011 at 07:50 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Chaos Coordinator For This Useful Post: | Annainprogress (03-06-2011), gdzprncess (06-10-2011), gpsings (03-09-2011), hopeforchange (07-19-2011), Maggirayne (03-09-2011), PrincessAnika (06-11-2011), Snugglebugmom (06-24-2012), Stiina (03-11-2011), SweetCaroline (03-05-2011), TenderLovingWillow (03-07-2011), Vicki_T (03-09-2011), Virginia (06-11-2011) |
![]() |
#12 |
Rose Garden
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,723
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]()
__________________
Tracey Blessed to be married 24 years. Ever-learning Gentle Mama to 3 Amazing Boys (17, 14, 12) I am determined to be invincible until He has finished His purpose in me. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |
Rose Garden
![]() They need freedom to just be fluffy mashed potatoes and feel their fluffy feelings.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Up to my earballs in little boys.
Posts: 20,259
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
i can ask myself these questions all day, but when you've grown up entrenched in harsh punitive discipline, physical punishment, shaming, and the like, you dont have a healthy concept of boundaries, you justify spanking by saying that it keeps them safe, you equate fear with respect, and refer to principles of b-mod to teach patterns for how to act. and this is coming from someone who found this website when my firstborn was an infant. i cannot imagine how difficult it must be when you've been parenting for a long time before trying to make the switch.
__________________
Joy Progressive Methodist Enfp mama to Sparrow, 10 Zion, 7.5 Baby Gus, 4.5 Preschool teacher. Musician. Timelord. Www.justicemercymayhem.wordpress.com "What you plant in the kingdom will surely grow, and what you grow with love will surely bloom, and the fruit of the spirit will come back to you." |
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Chaos Coordinator For This Useful Post: | gpsings (03-09-2011), hopeforchange (07-19-2011), Maggirayne (03-09-2011), NewLeaf (03-09-2011), PrincessAnika (06-11-2011), Stiina (03-11-2011), TenderLovingWillow (03-07-2011), Vicki_T (03-09-2011), Virginia (06-11-2011) |
![]() |
#14 | |
Rose Garden
![]() ![]() a little Attachment Parenting will fix that
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,981
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
i was raised by a single father too. so- im like some harsh man-mom. sorry.."was". im getting better ![]()
__________________
Gently mothering 5 babes one day at a time, only by the help of my Lord - ages 11,6,5, 4, & 2 ![]() Nonviolence is not sterile passivity, but a powerful moral force which makes for social transformation.ISFP Last edited by SweetCaroline; 03-05-2011 at 08:19 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following User Says Thank You to SweetCaroline For This Useful Post: | Domina (06-11-2011) |
![]() |
#15 |
Rose Garden
![]() They need freedom to just be fluffy mashed potatoes and feel their fluffy feelings.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Up to my earballs in little boys.
Posts: 20,259
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
(i'm having a really bad day so if my posts seem unnecessarily harsh or, even
![]() ![]()
__________________
Joy Progressive Methodist Enfp mama to Sparrow, 10 Zion, 7.5 Baby Gus, 4.5 Preschool teacher. Musician. Timelord. Www.justicemercymayhem.wordpress.com "What you plant in the kingdom will surely grow, and what you grow with love will surely bloom, and the fruit of the spirit will come back to you." |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following User Says they are praying for Chaos Coordinator: | crmmom (03-05-2011) |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|
X vBulletin 3.8.3 Debug Information | |
---|---|
|
|
![]() |
|
Template Usage:
Phrase Groups Available:
|
Included Files:
Hooks Called:
|