Talk to me about Vision Forum

[Hermana Linda]

Betsy, we never decided where to put your list where it can be easily accessed. I was thinking of a new, stickied thread. Or one of us can blog it.

[purple_kangaroo]

I'm still not quite clear on how Michael Farris is connected with Vision Forum, though? My impression was always that he was one of the less extreme writers/speakers.

[mwwr]

Originally Posted by BarefootBetsy

TTL mentioned (to me, in person, not on the board) that there's an alternative to the HSLDA for legal issues... I cannot remember what it was. I'll ask her tomorrow if she doesn't come back to the thread by then. I need to know anyhow because I would like to consider the pros and cons of using the alternative.

We just renewed HSLDA, but I'd like to know for next year.

[BarefootBetsy]

Originally Posted by Hermana Linda

Betsy, we never decided where to put your list where it can be easily accessed. I was thinking of a new, stickied thread. Or one of us can blog it.

Blogging it would probably be best. I'm fine with you putting it on yours because it'd probably fit in better there than at DtD. I can let you know when more connections come up and you'll probably find more yourself. Your blog probably gets more traffic too.

[Hermana Linda]

Originally Posted by BarefootBetsy

Blogging it would probably be best. I'm fine with you putting it on yours because it'd probably fit in better there than at DtD. I can let you know when more connections come up and you'll probably find more yourself. Your blog probably gets more traffic too.

Ok, I'll post it as a page, probably tomorrow and I can link to it in an upcoming post. It will be easy to find among my articles.

[purple_kangaroo]

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove

I walked out of a seminar being given at our HS convention a few years ago by Michael Ferris when he allowed the dialogue with the audience to turn to all the legal ways to cause your children pain in public and more likely avoid having CPS called on you. I have NO respect for the man.

Was this in the context of answering a question about the legality of corporal discipline from his expertise as a lawyer, or was he teaching that these things were required by God in order to meet God's standard for biblical parenting?

[TestifyToLove]

HSLDA runs Patrick Henry College. They are Patriarchal as Patriarchal comes. HSLDA does not have a statement of faith requirement. However, they will also drop you like a HOT POTATO the first chance they get if you ever need their services for anything. Additionally, HSLDA is absolutely, 100% Patriarchal and ARROGANT about it.

I have a close personal friend who spent 8 years as a District Attorney. She quit when she started having children to homeschool her children. She tried TWICE to become a HSLDA associate attorney in her state, since she was HIGHLY experienced and maintained her law license. She was twice rejected, the second time by Micheal Ferris personally. The ONLY reason she was reject..and she was directly told this was the reason? She was a WOMAN and HSLDA does not believe women have any Biblical basis for becoming an attorney.

She is now an associate attorney for Christian Law Association and Homeschool Legal Advantage. She has hung out her attorney's shingle from her home WHILE homeschooling her girls (all 6 of them). She helps homeschooling families trying to transition into public school, public school families trying to transition to homeschooling, families with special needs trying to navigate the public school and adoption law. MUCH more in line with what HSLDA first intended to become, and nothing like where they are now. HSLDA is fully associated with VF, just as VF is fully associated with HSLDA at this point.

We are transitioning away from HSLDA just as soon as Dh 'get's around to it' ftr. I'm one of the unfortunate families who has had to call upon their services twice and they were not only NOT helpful but they were condescending. Yes, they assisted me with the knock at the door but once that immediate response was over, they left us high and dry and flat-out LIED about what their charter said they were supposed to be covering. In addition, when I attempted to put kids into the public schools, they were beyond rude and intimidating about that choice. They don't care one whit about moving back from homeschooling because they have become increasingly isolationist and dominionist in their approach to homeschooling.

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by TestifyToLove

HSLDA runs Patrick Henry College. They are Patriarchal as Patriarchal comes. HSLDA does not have a statement of faith requirement. However, they will also drop you like a HOT POTATO the first chance they get if you ever need their services for anything. Additionally, HSLDA is absolutely, 100% Patriarchal and ARROGANT about it.

I have a close personal friend who spent 8 years as a District Attorney. She quit when she started having children to homeschool her children. She tried TWICE to become a HSLDA associate attorney in her state, since she was HIGHLY experienced and maintained her law license. She was twice rejected, the second time by Micheal Ferris personally. The ONLY reason she was reject..and she was directly told this was the reason? She was a WOMAN and HSLDA does not believe women have any Biblical basis for becoming an attorney.

She is now an associate attorney for Christian Law Association and Homeschool Legal Advantage. She has hung out her attorney's shingle from her home WHILE homeschooling her girls (all 6 of them). She helps homeschooling families trying to transition into public school, public school families trying to transition to homeschooling, families with special needs trying to navigate the public school and adoption law. MUCH more in line with what HSLDA first intended to become, and nothing like where they are now. HSLDA is fully associated with VF, just as VF is fully associated with HSLDA at this point.

We are transitioning away from HSLDA just as soon as Dh 'get's around to it' ftr. I'm one of the unfortunate families who has had to call upon their services twice and they were not only NOT helpful but they were condescending. Yes, they assisted me with the knock at the door but once that immediate response was over, they left us high and dry and flat-out LIED about what their charter said they were supposed to be covering. In addition, when I attempted to put kids into the public schools, they were beyond rude and intimidating about that choice. They don't care one whit about moving back from homeschooling because they have become increasingly isolationist and dominionist in their approach to homeschooling.

I can believe that without any trouble at all. Basically, if it was around before or around the time HS began to gain steam, I am suspicious of it, because chances are that they are the wing nuts that were there when my family was doing it. Though that they lied does surprise me, I would have thought that they would value their integrity too much for that. Maybe they have gotten too comfortable? I am sorry you had that experience and what they did to your friend was inexcusable.

[Striving4Grace]

I'm not a member of HSLDA mainly because I live in a great district and felt like it would be a waste of money. Until this thread I had no idea they were in with VF nor did I know there was an alternative to HSLDA. Anyway, on HSLDA's FB page you can see what the vast majority of people that align themselvs think about things simply in their status regarding the boy who refused to wrestle a girl. I opened an email they just sent me about webinars - I usually just delete them without reading because I'm not interested in those things but I decided to based on this thread. They have a few going on but one is with Martha Peace of The Excellent Wife (WOS) on being a godly mom and wife and another is with Lou Priolo. IDK anything about him but since the subject is training your children with the scriptures I simply (maybe incorrectly) assumed it was more negative, adversarial parenting.

[Hermana Linda]

Ok, I posted the list here and gave you (BB) credit. Let me know if you don't like how I did it.

[mwwr]

Originally Posted by TestifyToLove

I have a close personal friend who spent 8 years as a District Attorney. She quit when she started having children to homeschool her children. She tried TWICE to become a HSLDA associate attorney in her state, since she was HIGHLY experienced and maintained her law license. She was twice rejected, the second time by Micheal Ferris personally. The ONLY reason she was reject..and she was directly told this was the reason? She was a WOMAN and HSLDA does not believe women have any Biblical basis for becoming an attorney.

And men do?? Nonsense.

Makes you wonder why they bother letting women in at PHC.

[TestifyToLove]

Because they are accrediated and want to continue to recieve their Federal funding. Sex discrimination in higher education is illegal. They would have to go the way of BJU in order to discriminate and forgo lots of funding they rely upon.

[ArmsOfLove]

Originally Posted by purple_kangaroo

Was this in the context of answering a question about the legality of corporal discipline from his expertise as a lawyer, or was he teaching that these things were required by God in order to meet God's standard for biblical parenting?

It was in response to him offering a personal aside to everyone that when they spank their children they need to make sure it's not in public because in this day and age someone will call CPS and you'll be investigated. He assured them it was legal, but warned them to not do it in public. Then everyone raised their hands and were called on by him and started offering legal and secret ways to inflict pain on your children when you can't spank because others are watching.

Seems of the Biblical requirement of spanking is really all they're concerned about then legal ways to inflict pain doesn't even need to be on the agenda. IF, as the reality is, it's about hurting your children then the conversation fit Because if spanking is Biblical then they should be willing to go to jail to obey God. The hypocrisy is palatable.

[BarefootBetsy]

My mom used to pinch our shoulders/arms in public if we were misbehaving in such a way that she would've spanked at home. She didn't try it on me very often though because I'd always say, "OUCH! That HURT!" in a really loud voice which would completely embarrass her

[emerald]

Originally Posted by Hermana Linda

Here are some more names which I believe to be involved: Bob Jones Jr., Gary Bauer, Jonathan Lindvall, Mary Pride, ATI, Basic Life Principles.

Yeah, Basic Life Principles and ATI were started by people working for Gothard, I think. Ron and Joyce Fuhrman. Ron was a pastor at a church my family-of-origin attended in the early 80s. My parents didn't believe most of the stuff, but it was still a very damaging experience. Ron and Joyce and their kids moved to the Gothard HQ in the Chicago area after that.
I think their daughters worked with them in ministry as adults, and their son went into commercial real estate (according to results found on google).