My first encounter...

[Mama2MeadowRose]

UGH! My message deleted. Anyways, I'm typically not shocked by the concept of many families using physical discipline but what a mother said at a recent get-together made me wanna jump out of my chair! She said that when a child is old enough to throw a tantrum, it means that its time. So I asked her what age that would be or how young and the answer: 4 MONTHS OLD! She said that if they throw a tantrum because they arent allowed to play with dishes or something, its okay to [lightly?] smack their hand. I was so angry!! I cant imagine hurting my nearly 6mo old much less a 4mo old!!

I wanted to give this lady a piece of my mind but 1) I hardly know her and 2) she was the hostess of the get-together. So for now, I kept silent.

[forty-two]

*I* can't imagine seeing a 4mo as throwing a tantrum . I, at least, saw a big shift around 18mo when my two both really grasped that they were an autonomous being and could do things even when Mommy said no . I can see the Dobson-esque reasoning of starting to spank then, even though I don't agree. But 4mo!!!! Either that woman doesn't have (older) kids or she has some *strong* theological/philosophical blinders on .

[Mama2MeadowRose]

Shes got 9 kids ranging from 21 yrs old to 3yrsold

[Maggie]

That's so hard to hear. Maybe you will have another chance to talk child development and discipline with her.

[MarynMunchkins]

With 9 kids, I wouldn't hold my breath that she'll take advice from you. :? I think if you want to say anything, I'd just reflect your own feelings to her.

Personally, I'd avoid being around people who think hitting a 4 month old is ok.

[forty-two]

Originally Posted by Mama2MeadowRose

Shes got 9 kids ranging from 21 yrs old to 3yrsold

Wow, those are some impressive blinders . (I do understand how easy it is to see what one wants/expects to see - I worry a lot about making sure I don't get so invested in my theories about life, the universe, and everything that I force reality to conform to them - it should be the other way around .)

[Maggie]

Ooh, I hadn't read about all the kids she has and their ages. I agree with Mary.

[Mama2MeadowRose]

It's just tough because they are all wonderful sweet children from the oldest to the youngest. They all love their parents dearly. They are respectful, they are kind, and they are genuinely loving. If they want to use physical discipline, I'm not going to judge them. But it was the 4month old comment that really made me angry. I'd never let anyone even lightly hurt our infant! It's not like babies are trying to be defiant or understand what sin is! I thought that was just logical...guess not

[L-Boogie]

Originally Posted by Mama2MeadowRose

It's just tough because they are all wonderful sweet children from the oldest to the youngest. They all love their parents dearly. They are respectful, they are kind, and they are genuinely loving. If they want to use physical discipline, I'm not going to judge them. But it was the 4month old comment that really made me angry. I'd never let anyone even lightly hurt our infant! It's not like babies are trying to be defiant or understand what sin is! I thought that was just logical...guess not

The thing is... you'll probably continue feeling this way as Meadow grows up I would never let anyone hurt my 4yo "baby". I find the idea repulsive, no matter how mad I've been at certain times.

(It's not a judgment on anyone else's parenting. My parents swatted my diaper covered bottom and I understand why they did it, even if I'm not choosing to parent that way.)

[Victorious]

Sounds very likely that they are pearl followers . Stay far away

[melliethepooh]

I almost swallowed my tonsils when I heard a relation talk about her X month old having a tantrum...

[Joyanne]

I was just arguing (and I hate confrontation and hate to argue) with someone the other day about this very thing. She was insisting that a 3 week old (!!!!) can throw a temper tantrum and should be put in his crib to teach him not to throw tantrums. I was just floored by this. It would never occur to me that a 3 week old was crying for 'no reason' other than temper. I would think something was the matter, even if I could not find anything wrong.

I told my dh about this conversation and he just rolled his eyes and "That is so stupid. You aren't going to teach that baby anything about throwing tantrums, b/c babies don't throw tantrums. They cry for *reasons*. " (My dh is a huge advocate of two philosophies: 1. Babies always have a reason to cry, even if it's just that they need to be held. and 2. When all else fails, the boob cures everything. LOL)

He really hates stuff like this--it's why we threw out Ezzo and the Pearls without getting into their stuff for older kids back when we had just one and two little ones.

In Christ,
Joy

[Annainprogress]

My daughter was early starting "tantrums". She started (and I do mean proper ones) at about 12 mths. In fact her older brother picked up "tips" from her and his tantrums became more impressive but yeah can't imagine what a 4 mth old could do that would be perceived as a tantrum

[JessicaNichole]

That is a hard thing to hear when you are on the other side of the fence when it comes to spanking/hitting What a blessing it is for you that you can see that its not right for you or other children and not be blinded by this womans seemingly perfect children.

My grandmother told me she spanked my mom at 5 weeks old on her bare leg for throwing a fit while she was having her diaper changed...yeah thats the kind of advice i got for parenting my first child

My Isaiah threw his first fit at 6 months old. He wanted to take a bath, i wouldnt let him. he kept crawling into the bathroom, pulling up on the tub and screaming.... it was pretty halarious actually my older kids and i got a kick out of it. No matter what i tried he kept going back to the tub He of all my children is the most "strong willed" none of my other threw real fits like he does woo! He is a handful Im so thankful that im in a place now where i dont feel personaly offened at the fit throwing, had he been my first well...you see the advice i got

[bolt.]

It's not like babies are trying to be defiant or understand what sin is! I thought that was just logical...guess not

Parents in this space, I think, are not thinking of philosophy or logic. They are simply running with the knowledge that all living things avoid pain -- even mild pain. So if you want a living thing to not do something causing pain immediately after they do it is an effective way of reducing how often they do it.

a 3 week old (!!!!) can throw a temper tantrum and should be put in his crib to teach him not to throw tantrums. I was just floored by this. It would never occur to me that a 3 week old was crying for 'no reason' other than temper. I would think something was the matter, even if I could not find anything wrong.

Parents in this space, I think, do know that babies cry for reasons. The intention is to demonstrate that crying for 'whatever reason that is' (which is not 'a good reason') will result in an unpleasant experience. That unpleasant experience (when possible) begins to sink in: as an impulse to no longer use an inneffective means to try to express that need.

So the baby gets to a state where he or she only cries for a 'legitimate' need, and has instinctively ceased crying for the reasons that have consistantly yeilded unpleasantness rather than help.

If that non-cognitive conclusion begins to be wider in scope and the baby's instincts 'realize' that crying is an ineffective means to get any need attended to -- he or she becomes quiet. Then name of this condition is 'infant depression' (I think), and it is linked with 'failure to thrive'.

It's my opinion that some ultra-punitive infant ideas/books (while they may not know these terms, or think of it this way) are logically intending to 'teach' a baby that crying is not an effective means to get any need attended to, and thus result in their idea of a 'good' quiet baby.