re attaching older children?

I have been practicing AP with my youngest child. he is now one year. I have 2 older children 2 and a half and 4 years old. I am just now realizing how damaging the book "to train up a child" was for my oldest. I was given the book by my mother who strongly believes in punative punishment. I am also looking for some good christian resources about damaging effects of the Pearls books.
I am having the most amazing behavioral problems with him and I am trying to figure out the best way to re attach him. Is there anything I can read to help me learn to gently parent him? He is 4 years old. He is extremely defyant, and strong willed. I am looking to re establish trust with him.
thanks

[Quiteria]

I am going through the same thing with my 4 1/2 dd and my 5mo son. I am horrified at the difference in my own attitude toward dd now that I see what AP is like for ds. I have not yet begun reading books (library here is closed today ), but I will keep you in my prayers as we begin this journey.

[CelticJourney]

I'm not absolutely sure, but I think there is a group devoted to that very task. It's former-Ezzo users, but I suspect some of the same issues as Pearl. Go to www.Ezzo.info and see if they have a link to it in their resource section, otherwise, maybe another mom here will know one way or the other. It is not an uncommon problem at all.

I don't have any specific resources to point you to, but I couldn't read without trying to respond.



I agree with Elizabeth. This is a common situation. In my many years online in AP-mama groups, I've seen many mamas come to AP-GBD from a punitive discipline style and go through reattachment with their children. It absolutely can be done! I know there are mamas here who have gone through this, and I hope they see this and respond.

Your children are still so very young. I don't think it will take too long for you to start seeing lots of progress in the attachment department.

I personally would start with an apology, most esp. with the 4 yo. Tell him you thought you were parenting the best way, but that you now know your decisions damaged your relationship and his spirit. Tell him you'd like to grow closer to him, and you're learning about using grace in discipline. Of course, say all this on a 4yo level. DH is fixing our snack, and computer time is almost over for me, so I'm typing quickly!

Expect a time of him pushing the boundaries. You may notice his behavior get worse. He is simply trying to test you and see how you will react. He wants to know how far he can push (if he can push that far) to make you go back to punitive discipline. He won't feel safe at first, (because he will be "missing" the punishment), but after a time, he will see that you are still enforcing boundaries and you are here to help him.

Spend lots of time in positive/encouraging situations with him. Praise him (but not empty praise like "Good job", use descriptive praise like, "You picked up all your blocks all by yourself. How helpful!"), and try to catch him doing "good" things. Take time *daily* (or multiple times a day) to spend one-on-one time with him, reading, doing a craft, coloring, playing, etc.

Lastly, work on improving your GBD tools and growing your toolbox. Post here exact situations going on, and you will get lots of good ideas on handling those situations. There are so many good books to read. It's hard to recommend one without knowing more about your family dynamics. Some are great on the theories and others are great on specifics. What have you read, if anything? What kind of book do you think would help meet your needs right now?

How wonderful that you've found AP & GBD now!

[BHope]

I second the recommendation to take one on one time with your DS.

I have an uncle who works with http: //www.intermountain.org/html/about_us.htm. He works with severly detatched children and is an interesting person to speak to in regards to attachment parenting. I remember at one point having a conversation with him regarding how a person goes about 're-attaching' with an older child. He (my Uncle) really emphasized taking that special one on one time together. Suggesting that games involving feeding are often some of the best ways to connect. He likens it to a "do-over." Obviously you can't go back and hold/nurse/care for your DS in the same way you would if he was a baby. But you can play little one-on-one games with him.

An example that sticks out in my head:
The M&M game. Have a little cup full of M&M's and sit down together with your child. Have DS close his eyes and feed him an M&M. Asking your DS to guess what colour it is. It doesn't matter what colour you gave your DS to taste... whatever he guesses is right. Remember, the point is not the colour of the M&M, but is instead it's to create a time of connection and sharing between parent and child. Your child gets to hear nothing but encouragement and "Wow! I'm impressed with you!" "You are important to me" "What you say impacts me." "I'm so glad that you are my son."

Anyway, it's a silly little game... but it might be something fun and special that you could do with your DS.

Another thing I remember my Uncle mentioning was that we need to remember that when we connect with our babies we do so by constant contact. Nursing frequently, holding and carrying for them, face to face dialogue, physically touching... (hugs, kisses on the cheeks, brushing hair.) The same principles apply to connecting with older children who need help re-attaching.

Wow! The information that you ladies have given me already is amazing! Thank you so vert much for taking the time to say these things to me. I had been feeling a bit discouraged about the relationship I have with my 4 year old son. I now feel much better in knowing that we will get through this.
I have not read really any books. I gather information from places online and other mothers. which is not the best way to do things because you get a lot of mixed information. I am looking for a good ap style book with a christian writer. Does that exist?

[AmyDoll]

I am looking for a good ap style book with a christian writer. Does that exist?

There's lots! There's a book *sticky* on the Gentle Discipline board with lots of book recommendations. Crystal's book "Biblical Parenting" is a great place to start. But there's others that you might be able to get from the library while you're waiting for Crystal's book to come in the mail!

Expect a time of him pushing the boundaries. You may notice his behavior get worse. He is simply trying to test you and see how you will react. He wants to know how far he can push (if he can push that far) to make you go back to punitive discipline. He won't feel safe at first, (because he will be "missing" the punishment), but after a time, he will see that you are still enforcing boundaries and you are here to help him.

Spend lots of time in positive/encouraging situations with him. Praise him (but not empty praise like "Good job", use descriptive praise like, "You picked up all your blocks all by yourself. How helpful!"), and try to catch him doing "good" things. Take time *daily* (or multiple times a day) to spend one-on-one time with him, reading, doing a craft, coloring, playing, etc.

Lastly, work on improving your GBD tools and growing your toolbox.

I have a 4 yo, 8 yo and 9 yo. The 4 yo has been most AP'd, and I'm working on rebuilding with the 8 and 9 yo. There is a 22 yo, also... .and that's going *very* slow. It *is* difficult when they keep testing the boundaries. So, you have to remember to hang in there!!! And hang out here for the encouragement and help offered here.

[katiekind]

Glad you're here. One suggestion I have is to take a look, while you're at the library some time, at an ages-and-stages book such as "Your Four Year Old" by Ames and Ilg. Fours are very distinctive in their general behavior and it may comfort you if you find out that some of what you're seeing is common to the age.

You've gotten some excellent information from the other moms already but wanted to add my welcome!

One other thing I've noticed. I think it is normal to feel a little more hesitant and fearful when dealing with a first born. Even one that is APed from birth. Everything that a first born does is, well, by nature, first. The things that you think are totally indicative of your first born child being on the path to bank robbery, by the time the second and third do them you know they are totally normal stages and they will grow out of it. SO I think it is normal to feel like attachment is easier with the younger children than with the eldest.

Another attachement idea too:
I used to tell the girls stories as I was putting them to bed that were basically a recap of the day. We called them "Madeline stories" or "Isabella stories." I'd start "once upon a time there was a little girl named Isabella. One day she woke up and saw that it was a rainy day...." and would give a synopsis of what Isabella did that day especially emphasising the positives. I think it sends a message that they are important enough for me to notice what they do each day. It also gave me a chance to reinforce the good stuff and send them to bed on a good note. They loved it!!!!!

Magan

Magan

[BHope]

I love that story idea! DD1 would LOVE that. She gets a kick out of hearing me sing silly songs with her name in them.

Another thing we do over here is when I brush DD1's hair (DD2 doesn't have any ) I say a prayer aloud for her. Usually it's short and sweet. Such as: "Dear God, thank you so much for Sarrah. Thank you for her smiles and for her happy laughter. Thank you God for the nice day we are having today. Please help Sarrah to know Mommy loves her and cares about her. -Amen." The whole time I'm praying I brush-brush her hair.

I notice when I remember to pray for DD1 while I'm brushing that DD1 will sit still and allow me to detangle her hair. There have been a few days that she's even brought the brush over to me and asked for "Ah-mens"

[Maggie]

Great thread!

I think you need to expect some acting out.

Another thing, a child who has been through that sort of experience may also (it sounds like a cunnundrum) to get a feel for boundaries. He will most likely test the waters. Since he is accustomed to harsh methods, the subtlities of the more gentle methods may be lost to him, for a while. It may take many sessions with gently reinforcing boundaries for the new realities to sink in. At the same time, you will most likely experience doubts, lines from those books will come back to you, how your child will be a horrid criminal or burn in hell because you aren't using the author's pet methods. It is very hard to fight against those voices.

This is really hard for the parents because you are also accustomed to the punitive methods with older children *and* your mother believes in punitive parenting so I presume *you* only knew these methods as a child.

It will be hard but it will also be well worth the effort.

You may need to take a lot of special time with each one of your older children, in addition, if you have a dh on board with gentle methods, he will be a real blessing because he could take over a lot of the work. This is hard hard work, but the rewards are priceless.

DB

Thank you for your encouragement.We are going through the "testing" right now. I think he is much happier though. I am trying to spens a little time with him alone every day.it really makes him feel good and I can tell he looks foward to it. He actually ask every now and then if we can do something together just me and him.
Sadly DH is not on board with me in the gentle discapline. I am alone in this, but he mostly leaves all of the parenting up to me anyway....DH is a whole different thread...I was punished harshly, and so was he by his 'christian' parents who are the biggest hypocrites I have ever met, no wonder he is a whole 'nother thread.............
Anyway my goal is to change my angry 4 year old in to a happy genlte one with a happy gentle mother to learn from. I think that should be a goal for every new mother. My mother and I are in a war over the definition of the "rod". And it doesnt help that she constantly underminds me in front of my children.

If she constantl undermines you in front of your children, you need to stop giving her the opportunity by inviting her over and such.

That's way off, if she has an issue with you, she should take you aside and talk with you privately.

I'm sorry you and your dh were hurt as children.

DH and I are similar and it took a long time for dh to see the light regarding discipline.

We both still feel residuals of our harsh upbringing and toxic church teaching.

db