Can't take the "S" word out of my vocabulary..

No, not the four letter one. The "spanking" word. It has been over a month since I spanked any of my kids. This may not seem like long to you, but for us ex-Pearl followers it is a lifetime. Even my husband, who is totally not GBD, swatted Lara's tush yesterday, and, well, was a little shocked at her reaction. See, it used to be a swat wouldn't even phase her, she would just continue with what she was doing. Since it has been so long since she got a swat, she fell on the floor and she didn't cry loud, she just sat there with tears streaming down her face, and then came over to me and crawled into my lap and just cried. Even he is starting to see where the difference in behavior has been. There are challenges, but my kids are happier, we are all closer as a family. We are all happier to be around each other. My kids beg to stay around me now, when I am cooking, cleaning, whatever. My oldest took it upon himself to move the couches and sweep under them sayind "Ima (I'm his stepmom so I am Ima to him) you don't need to be moving furniture with the baby in there". Now this may not seem like a big thing, but this is the child who wouldn't even wash a plate of his own, and now he is trying to work with me, to help me. Anyway, on to the problem.

No matter how wonderful I feel about this, I can't take spanking completely out of my toolbox. I mean, I still feel the need to have it in there, for my own peace of mind I guess. I mean, the worst spanking I ever gave Justin, (my middle child) was when he ran in front of an SUV. He was 2 at the time and he would have been hit if it weren't for the sweetest, LARGEST man I have ever met. This man jumped in front of Justin and yelled STOP! to the SUV. The SUV managed to stop about 1 inch from this guy's legs. Well, I did spank Justin after that. The point is, if this were to happen again, I feel that I would really want to make sure it never happened again. I mean Justin has yet to let go of my hand in a parking lot since that happened. I don't know if this makes sense, but I just can't seem to cut spanking out of my mindset completely.

I know exactly what you mean. Just yesterday ds ran out of gma's house and kept running, making me chase him, I was afraid he was going to make it to the street because he's faster than me now. It scared me and I swatted him. It did affect him more than it used to also, but it was a light swat. I still feel the need to keep it in my toolbox for occassions when safety is an issue. I want him to know that its not okay and I don't have anything else in my toolbox yet to get that point across in such a serious situation.

[milkmommy]

You should be proud of the progress you've made, for some of us spanking in any situation simpily isn't an option. I remeber thinking Oh in extreme situations where its a safety issue then I'll spank, now its not even on the table its been tossed out of the tool box its just not acceptable here.

I feel that I would really want to make sure it never happened again. I mean Justin has yet to let go of my hand in a parking lot since that happened. I don't know if this makes sense, but I just can't seem to cut spanking out of my mindset completely.

Just remeber spankings won't gareentee anything. Studies have shown that parent supervision is key untill they have the maturity to proccess the situation on their own. I've seen kids spanked for playing in the street only to see them go right back just covering their bum others won't dare do it in front of their parents but take the parents away and their all over the street. ( I was that child) the best is to make sure your always in arms reach...
Things to do instead.. practice play red light green light or mother may I type games where you practice code words for stop (stop, halt, freeze) keep the reins tight as they are learning and tighten as needed. Rule is I hold my DD hand when in parking lots or street but if were just walkin she can do so on her own as long as she stays with in arms reach of me. IF she starts to run off and won't stop when I tell her then she looses the "privlege" of walking on her own and she must hold my hand or go ito a stroller/ be held.

Deanna

[TulipMama]

See, it used to be a swat wouldn't even phase her, she would just continue with what she was doing. Since it has been so long since she got a swat, she fell on the floor and she didn't cry loud, she just sat there with tears streaming down her face, and then came over to me and crawled into my lap and just cried.

I understand. The difference in reactions between my oldest (punitively raised as a toddler) and my youngest (gbd raised as a toddler) is one of the things that has affirmed for me that it is better for our family not to be punitive. My youngest has a more strongly developed sense of self and personal boundaries, in a healthy way. Seeing the reactions from him of me using purposefully inflicted pain as discipline really shocked me--in a good way.

When we stopped spanking, it was still common for me to want to ask, "Do you need a spank?" and to reflexively rely upon that. Something that helped was reading Ephesians 6. After the "Children obey, Parents don't exasperate" portion comes the section about masters and servants.

9And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

The "do the same things" refers to earlier in the passage about treating one another as brothers in Christ, serving as if we are serving the Lord. But what stood out to me was the give up threatening. If that isn't appropriate in the master/servant relationship, how much less is it appropriate for the parent/child relationship. And the whole idea of giving up threatening spanks, was one of the steps for me in letting go of spanking as a tool completely.

You are at the point where you want to "reserve the right" to spank. I totally understand that. In our family, that's where my husband is. (Then again, he's GBD in practice but not necessarily in ideology--he's wary of being ideologically driven. . .) And I can barely remember the last time he used that tool. For me, it was important to remove that completely as an option--and I'm thankful for that.

Hope this is encouraging as you sort through things. *hug*

[arymanth]

I mean, the worst spanking I ever gave Justin, (my middle child) was when he ran in front of an SUV. He was 2 at the time and he would have been hit if it weren't for the sweetest, LARGEST man I have ever met. This man jumped in front of Justin and yelled STOP! to the SUV. The SUV managed to stop about 1 inch from this guy's legs. Well, I did spank Justin after that. The point is, if this were to happen again, I feel that I would really want to make sure it never happened again. I mean Justin has yet to let go of my hand in a parking lot since that happened. I don't know if this makes sense, but I just can't seem to cut spanking out of my mindset completely.

I used spanking with 4 of my kids for the first 10 years of my parenting. I spanked for running in the street, and I even had a situation almost exactly like the one you described. My son came within inches of being hit by a car, and if it hadn't been for someone standing in just the right place at the right time, he might not be here today. Ten years experience of using the same method with 4 different kids taught me one thing, as a deterrent to keep kids from doing dangerous things SPANKING DOES NOT WORK!

What happens is that it takes the focus off of the behavior you want them to avoid (running in the street) and puts it on YOU. Because if the child truly understood the real danger (cars, etc.) and they had the maturity to stop themselves from impulsively doing dangerous things, then they wouldn't do it in the first place. What happens with spanking is that you make them afraid of the only danger that they do understand... YOU. They have no concept of what it feels like to be hit by a car, but they DO have a very good idea of what it feels like to be hit by you. What often happens is that if you are not close enough to them to physically grab them and enforce your threat, they tend to run away from the known danger... you... into the unknown one... the street. They KNOW that if you catch them, they are going to get hurt, but odds are they have been in the street several times without anything at all happening to them. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen a child (mine included) run INTO the street and AWAY from their parents when the parent sees them getting too close to the road and starts yelling for them to stop.

I used a different method to teach my youngest how to avoid dangerous things like the street or touching a hot stove. It took a lot more time and effort, but it was sooooo effective. We happened to live on the corner of a fairly quiet street, but there was a curve in the road coming towards our house, and cattails grew beside the road so that you couldn't see a child in the road until you were right on top of them. (it was a rental and we were not allowed to put up a fence.) I took my daughter to the side of the road and we watched the cars go by, we felt the wind as they passed, and we saw how fast they were going. Then I took her to our car and let her feel how hard it was, and how BIG it was compared to her, and then I had someone sit in the front seat and showed her how they couldn't see her if she was right in front of the car, because she was so small. We put a few things in the road and let cars run over them (people we knew) and we saw what happens when a car runs over something.... splat! Then we played games. She would hold my hand, and I would let her tell me if it was safe to cross the street.... look one way, then look the other way, then look back again. If she said it was "all clear", then we could cross to the other side. I might put my hand up to shade my eyes and look far into the distance, as if checking to see if there were cars, and she would look that way, too. We did this a dozen times or so, going back and forth across the street until she got bored with it. It was fun, and I made sure we played our game often. I also taught her the "freeze" game, where I would call out at random "freeze!" and she would have to stop still like a statue. It was ONLY a game, nothing serious, but it came in so handy if I ever needed her to stand still when she was out of arms reach. My daughter is 6 now, and out of all my kids, she is the only one who STILL looks both ways before crossing, and is careful about street safety. You couldn't pay her to run out into the street without looking, because she is aware of what the real dangers are.

I do understand completely how tempting it is to keep spanking as a "last resort" or a "safety measure"... but it really does not do what you want it to. Another thing to keep in mind is HOW spanking is supposed to work. The main idea is for your kids to be afraid of you so that they will do what you want, and not what they want. Even if it was effective, is this really the way you would want to teach them this lesson? I got this message quite clearly from my own parents, and I translated it to the way I treated my dog. When I was around 10-12 I took him to obedience classes. He did just fine, but he didn't always listen to me the way I wanted him to. The last night was the big test to see if they passed the class. I was so afraid that my dog would not listen to me, so I took him out behind the building and I whipped him with the end of his leash, thinking that if he was afraid of me, he would obey me. (I cried the whole time, but I thought that was what I HAD to do) It "worked", my dog was afraid of me, and he did listen to me, but I felt so sick and sad inside after that. He had no idea why I was hitting him, I couldn't explain to him how important it was to me that he pass the test or that I needed him to listen to me. The only thing that I knew he understood was PAIN. He obeyed me because he understood that if he didn't, I would hurt him. Spanking works the same way... do what I say or I will hurt you. It breaks down trust, it damages your relationship and it doesn't even work all of the time. My dog would obey me if he was on the leash, but if he was loose in the yard, he ignored me, because he knew I couldn't hurt him if I couldn't catch him. (my son understood the same thing, and would run like quicksilver if he thought he was in trouble!)

Too many kids have been hit by cars, drowned in swimming pools, scalded, burned or electrocuted just MINUTES after they have been spanked for these exact dangers. Spanking is NOT an effective "tool" to use for safety issues.

arymanth..

Thank you so much for your explanation. In a way, I needed a rebuke in a loving way. And you are right, I mean Justin had run into the road before that instance and had recieved spankings for it. I am starting to believe that he stopped running in the road because it finally "clicked" that this is a dangerous thing. I mean that man was so wonderful, he picked up my son (I had my hands full of baby and a screaming 7 yr. old. He got scared that his baby brother would get squished and he lost it.) and that man looked at my son and said, "you shouldn't do that, the big mean cars might get you". That was it, all he said. I did end up spanking Justin after that, but I think the event itself might have been the changing moment, not the spanking afterwards. And of course, like I said in another post, I think part of me felt, "well I have to punish him somehow or people will think I am a bad mom". You know between feeling like an idiot for not having a hand on him, trying to calm down a 7 yr. old that was completely hysterical, and dealing with the baby, then getting that scared. I think I felt that I HAD to do something. Now, this was 2 years ago, but I wish I would have just held him and loved him and told him how much I was scared.

I am starting to believe that he stopped running in the road because it finally "clicked" that this is a dangerous thing. ....... I think the event itself might have been the changing moment, not the spanking afterwards.

I agree. This is exactly what I was going to suggest.

It's sometimes difficult to teach, protect, model, wait.. repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat... and let our kids learn things in their own time. It's tempting (and apealing to our own selfishness and desire for control) to believe that we have the *power* to make our kids do all the things they ought to or all the things we want them to do.... But we can't truly control another person... understanding and accepting that was important part of this journey for me personally. It's hard to let go of an unhealthy "tool" when it *seems* powerful at times, and we crave that power (even when our intentions are good--like for safety issues). Recognize that its power is deceptive/unreliable, and that the potential damage it can cause is not worth it--even if you have the type of child that DOES yield to that type of approach.

I also had to see for myself and admit that it really was mostly an outlet for my fear/anger/frustration/embarrassment --a way of trying to feel less helpless in situations where I didn't know what else to do or felt like I had been completely steam-rolled by my child. (and, OH, I HATED to admit that.. felt so horrible about it. ) Seeing it for what it is, and determining to throw it out of my toolbox FELT at first like a limitation... like I was volunteering to handicap myself as a parent. What it actually did was push me outside of my parenting box and force me to grow and find different/better alternatives. It's liking letting go of an emotional "safety net" in our parenting, and it's part of the growing process.

Originally Posted by KatherineM

He was 2 at the time and he would have been hit if it weren't for the sweetest, LARGEST man I have ever met. This man jumped in front of Justin and yelled STOP! to the SUV. The SUV managed to stop about 1 inch from this guy's legs.

Was this man someone you know? Someone you've ever seen before or since? Because if you ask me, if you've never seen this man before or since then this sounds like an encounter with an angel.

I had never seen him before, and no, I haven't seen him since. But we moved from that area. Though, I don't know, you know what it says

Some have entertained angels unawares.

(Though this angel was wearing BDU's )

I'm so glad you posted this. Even though DH and I have been on the GBD boat for a year now, (I've been MIA from my computer and this board, but not GBD, LOL) it's really hard for me not to use it as a threat, which really makes me ill when I think about it. THe Lord has really been laying grace on me lately (I'm pregnant with our fourth and I have a thyroid condition which has really made me a little grumpy as of late) and I'm really seeing that it needs to be translated to the children as well. A different perspective that I was taking, in that these are *His* children that I'm taking care of, and I need to extend that grace and respect to them as much as I would to any other person. That's what brought me back here for support.
Thanks for being so honest