No Greater Joy letter

WalkByFaith · 11-20-2011, 05:19 PM

I'm not sure if this is in the right place:

NGJ has sent a letter to all of their supporters asking them to comment on all the articles on news websites to SUPPORT their ministry and to publicly create an outcry against the people who are against No Greater Joy and TTUAC. They've also asked their supporters to go to Amazon and click "yes" on all the postive reviews and "no" on all the negative reviews of TTUAC (as in "was this reply helpfor or not, click yes or no") and to write glowing reviews of TTUAC.

If you haven't written a reivew of TTUAC on Amazon I really urge you to do so. I don't see how Amazon will pull a book that has so many "positive" reviews.

momyshaver · 11-20-2011, 07:43 PM

TenderLovingWillow · 11-20-2011, 07:59 PM

Seriously???

nothing spells desperation like that.

charla · 11-20-2011, 08:22 PM

Uhhhhhh, if he hasn't done anything wrong, why does he need to rally the troops?

MaybeGracie · 11-20-2011, 10:42 PM

Disgusting.

rjy9343 · 11-21-2011, 12:57 AM

Praying God will not let them prevail.

Marrae · 11-21-2011, 04:24 AM

It has very poor reviews on the .co.uk site but I am

at the reviews on .com TFS this.

NewCovenantMama · 11-21-2011, 04:49 AM

This should be reported to Amazon! It's deliberate manipulation.

ETA I've just reported it on the petition's Facebook page.

I wonder what would happen if Amazon were to receive hundreds of individual complaints rather than (ie as well as) just one petition.

WalkByFaith · 11-21-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewCovenantMama

This should be reported to Amazon! It's deliberate manipulation.

ETA I've just reported it on the petition's Facebook page.

I wonder what would happen if Amazon were to receive hundreds of individual complaints rather than (ie as well as) just one petition.

What a great idea! I know if you go to either the No Greater Joy FB page or the TTUAC FB page (can't remember which one) you'll find the letter that they sent out.

mrsd · 11-21-2011, 11:40 AM

I have noticed an increase in positive reviews all on the same day.

keepinghome · 11-21-2011, 09:12 PM

I was just coming on here to tell you all about this! I only knew about it because my review on amazon was the 2nd most helpful (was for a long time at least, hadn't checked in a few months) and now I couldn't even find it. I noticed ALL of the "most helpful" reviews were 5 stars and thought that absolutely cannot be right, something fishy is going on. I also noticed almost all of the top reviews were written on nov 9 or after. Which I now see is the same day NGJ put the request on their fb page.

Can someone that hasn't yet, leave a review saying that NGJ is soliciting positive reviews?

PaperMomma · 11-21-2011, 09:25 PM

I remember them doing this a couple of years ago too.

saturnfire16 · 11-21-2011, 09:49 PM

Where is the facebook page for the petition?

Hermana Linda · 11-21-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saturnfire16

Where is the facebook page for the petition?

https://www.facebook.com/amazonpetition

PDX Mommy · 11-22-2011, 01:20 AM

I posted a negative review and called them out about soliciting support. You can read it here:

The Pearls manipulate in more ways than one November 22, 2011
Wondering why you see so many positive reviews dated November 9th and later? On November 91th, 2011, Michael & Debi Pearl posted the following letter on their Facebook page:

"Dear NGJ Supporters
by No Greater Joy Ministries on Wednesday, November 9, 2011 at 4:44pm

As you may be aware, NGJ is in the midst of a controversy as the result of a recent article in the New York Times and the subsequent articles and blogs that are using that article as a base, much of which is taken out of context and adding their own inflammatory rhetoric.

The opponents of the tradional, biblical, child training philosophy presented by NGJ are rallying an orchestrated attack to discredit the Pearls and our Ministry. This includes petitioning sales outlets such as Amazon to discontinue selling To Train Up a Child and all other NGJ material. Another tactic is to fill the book review pages on Amazon with negative 1 star reviews and hateful comments. We trust God's protection but also recognize our responsibility to properly respond and make these circumstances known to our supporters.

The time, energy and expense of this set of circumstances are a burden to our staff that is robbing us of the time and resources needed to operate the ministry. We greatly appreciate all the notes and emails of encouragement that have been received and covet your prayers and support during these difficult times.

You can assist us by making your voice heard. Share your beliefs and leave a comment to all the online articles that you read. You can also go to the To Train Up a Child page on Amazon and leave your own review and rate the other comments by checking "Yes" for the positive reviews and "No" for the negative reviews. You may also make your own comments in response to other reviews. Click "Create your own review" (located after the last review on the page) to rate To Train Up a Child and add your own review.

We covet your prayers and support and trust that God will be glorified through all of this.

Sincerely,

Mike and Debi"

Why exactly are they soliciting their supporters for deliberate manipulation of Amazon's review system if they are guilty of nothing? As they see it, they have no responsibility in many deaths and severe injuries that innocent children have suffered at that hands of parents following the Pearl's methods, as outlined in this book. They also do not view hitting children with plumbing line--EVEN BABIES AS YOUNG AS 4 MONTHS--as abuse because it doesn't leave a mark. Being repeatedly hit with plumbing line may not leave visible marks on the skin, but it does break down the tissue beneath in the skin and that can lead to kidney failure, and subsequently death. This is how Lydia Schatz, age 7, died. Her sister was also found in critical condition and hospitalized for enduring a 7 HOUR beating, "inspired" by the Pearl's book, "To Train Up A Child". This is not Biblical. Jesus would NEVER have wanted us to hit our children. Quite the contrary, hitting our children in the hopes of saving their souls teaches them that works can save them and that the grace providing by Jesus' death on the cross is not sufficient.

In fact, The Pearls base much of their child training philosophy on 7 verses found in the book of Proverbs. A wisdom/poetry book, not a law book. Seven verses, taken out of context and poorly interpreted. Proverbs has a lot of interesting illustrations--such as holding a knife to our throat while we eat if we're prone to gluttony--but you don't see Christians taking those to the extreme level as so-called "Biblical Discipline". That's probably because it's poetry--it paints a word picture. But it most certainly is not a command. We need to look at the Bible as a whole. We need to interpret Scripture based off of the original intent. We need to ditch the Pearls and their ministry. Please do not buy this book. If you already own it, BURN IT.

11-20-2011, 05:19 PM	#1
WalkByFaith Deactivated Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 379	No Greater Joy letter I'm not sure if this is in the right place: NGJ has sent a letter to all of their supporters asking them to comment on all the articles on news websites to SUPPORT their ministry and to publicly create an outcry against the people who are against No Greater Joy and TTUAC. They've also asked their supporters to go to Amazon and click "yes" on all the postive reviews and "no" on all the negative reviews of TTUAC (as in "was this reply helpfor or not, click yes or no") and to write glowing reviews of TTUAC. If you haven't written a reivew of TTUAC on Amazon I really urge you to do so. I don't see how Amazon will pull a book that has so many "positive" reviews.

11-20-2011, 07:43 PM	#2
momyshaver Rose Trellis Grace is for mamas too! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place Posts: 2,480	Re: No Greater Joy letter

11-20-2011, 07:59 PM	#3
TenderLovingWillow Rose Garden Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 8,673	Re: No Greater Joy letter Seriously??? nothing spells desperation like that. __________________ WILLOW Mom to Four Munchkins Birth Doula Childbirth Educator Babywearing Educator *Vegetarian

11-20-2011, 08:22 PM	#4
charla Administrator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 16,656	Re: No Greater Joy letter Uhhhhhh, if he hasn't done anything wrong, why does he need to rally the troops? __________________ CHARLA Married to Nick, 31 yrs Mom to Nathan and his wife Abby, and Hope Elizabeth, dancing for eternity with babies: Micah Noel, Grace Anna, Andrew David www.dancingforeternity.org www.irresistiblehope.org Save Save Save Save Save

11-20-2011, 10:42 PM	#5
MaybeGracie Moderator in A Twinkle in Our Eyes, Cradled in Our Wombs, Gentle Discipline, Nurturing Our Children, and Let's Talk Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 9,856	Re: No Greater Joy letter Disgusting. __________________ Cynthia Ezer Kenegdo to Isaac since 2007 Raising Jacob (16), Luke (14), Lily (11), Elizabeth (9), Clara (6), and Emily (3) in the knowledge and love of God Blogging at The Hippie Housewife about attachment parenting, natural living, life as a Jesus-follower, and more, all tied together through our journey towards a more intentional life.

11-21-2011, 12:57 AM	#6
rjy9343 Rose Garden Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 10,090	Re: No Greater Joy letter Praying God will not let them prevail. __________________ Rita s IstJ Wife to my brilliant geek James iNtJ since 4/08 Mom to our angel boy Jay 5/08 our quirky miracle DD Ivy 6/10 mellow miracle DS Jacob 7/15 Often Please forgive my frequent typos Standing firmly on Team Lioness!!! Roar!!! I am ready for people to know I am a GCM find me on Facebook

11-21-2011, 04:24 AM	#7
Marrae Moderator in Tweens & Teens, Teens & Beyond, the Cookbook, Let's Talk, Drawing Closer, and Bible Study The presence of the Holy Spirit is the keystone of all our hopes Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: U K Posts: 10,647	Re: No Greater Joy letter It has very poor reviews on the .co.uk site but I am at the reviews on .com TFS this. __________________ **~ Ruth * ~*** wife (dh A, ~ 33 ~ years) mother (dd G 29, ds D 25) And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Romans 8 : 28

11-21-2011, 04:49 AM	#8
NewCovenantMama Climbing Rose Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 1,192	Re: No Greater Joy letter This should be reported to Amazon! It's deliberate manipulation. ETA I've just reported it on the petition's Facebook page. I wonder what would happen if Amazon were to receive hundreds of individual complaints rather than (ie as well as) just one petition. __________________ Emma INFP mama to DS21 and twin DSS19 Married to my ENTJ sweetheart for 28 years Last edited by NewCovenantMama; 11-21-2011 at 05:07 AM.

11-21-2011, 11:40 AM	#10
mrsd Rose Trellis Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 3,175	Re: No Greater Joy letter I have noticed an increase in positive reviews all on the same day.

11-21-2011, 09:12 PM	#11
keepinghome Rose Bush Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: the last frontier Posts: 384	Re: No Greater Joy letter I was just coming on here to tell you all about this! I only knew about it because my review on amazon was the 2nd most helpful (was for a long time at least, hadn't checked in a few months) and now I couldn't even find it. I noticed ALL of the "most helpful" reviews were 5 stars and thought that absolutely cannot be right, something fishy is going on. I also noticed almost all of the top reviews were written on nov 9 or after. Which I now see is the same day NGJ put the request on their fb page. Can someone that hasn't yet, leave a review saying that NGJ is soliciting positive reviews? __________________ Beth Mama to Faith born May 2009 and Titus born Dec 2011 Last edited by keepinghome; 11-21-2011 at 10:29 PM.

11-21-2011, 09:25 PM	#12
PaperMomma Rose Garden Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5,271	Re: No Greater Joy letter I remember them doing this a couple of years ago too. __________________ So there you have it- I'm an INTJ. Embracing my inner geek. Doula in training. Momma to "Sister" 5yo "Scoomer" 3yo

11-21-2011, 09:49 PM	#13
saturnfire16 Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North Eastern CA Posts: 9,119	Re: No Greater Joy letter Where is the facebook page for the petition? __________________ ~Emily INTJ, Type 4 Wife to D Mama to: E 12/05 L 7/08 Z 12/10 A 6/14 and J in heaven 2/10 Torah Keeping, Unschooling Family My blog on unschooling and family life: Peace On Dark Nights.

11-22-2011, 01:20 AM	#15
PDX Mommy Rose Trellis Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,126	Re: No Greater Joy letter I posted a negative review and called them out about soliciting support. You can read it here: The Pearls manipulate in more ways than one November 22, 2011 Wondering why you see so many positive reviews dated November 9th and later? On November 91th, 2011, Michael & Debi Pearl posted the following letter on their Facebook page: "Dear NGJ Supporters by No Greater Joy Ministries on Wednesday, November 9, 2011 at 4:44pm As you may be aware, NGJ is in the midst of a controversy as the result of a recent article in the New York Times and the subsequent articles and blogs that are using that article as a base, much of which is taken out of context and adding their own inflammatory rhetoric. The opponents of the tradional, biblical, child training philosophy presented by NGJ are rallying an orchestrated attack to discredit the Pearls and our Ministry. This includes petitioning sales outlets such as Amazon to discontinue selling To Train Up a Child and all other NGJ material. Another tactic is to fill the book review pages on Amazon with negative 1 star reviews and hateful comments. We trust God's protection but also recognize our responsibility to properly respond and make these circumstances known to our supporters. The time, energy and expense of this set of circumstances are a burden to our staff that is robbing us of the time and resources needed to operate the ministry. We greatly appreciate all the notes and emails of encouragement that have been received and covet your prayers and support during these difficult times. You can assist us by making your voice heard. Share your beliefs and leave a comment to all the online articles that you read. You can also go to the To Train Up a Child page on Amazon and leave your own review and rate the other comments by checking "Yes" for the positive reviews and "No" for the negative reviews. You may also make your own comments in response to other reviews. Click "Create your own review" (located after the last review on the page) to rate To Train Up a Child and add your own review. We covet your prayers and support and trust that God will be glorified through all of this. Sincerely, Mike and Debi" Why exactly are they soliciting their supporters for deliberate manipulation of Amazon's review system if they are guilty of nothing? As they see it, they have no responsibility in many deaths and severe injuries that innocent children have suffered at that hands of parents following the Pearl's methods, as outlined in this book. They also do not view hitting children with plumbing line--EVEN BABIES AS YOUNG AS 4 MONTHS--as abuse because it doesn't leave a mark. Being repeatedly hit with plumbing line may not leave visible marks on the skin, but it does break down the tissue beneath in the skin and that can lead to kidney failure, and subsequently death. This is how Lydia Schatz, age 7, died. Her sister was also found in critical condition and hospitalized for enduring a 7 HOUR beating, "inspired" by the Pearl's book, "To Train Up A Child". This is not Biblical. Jesus would NEVER have wanted us to hit our children. Quite the contrary, hitting our children in the hopes of saving their souls teaches them that works can save them and that the grace providing by Jesus' death on the cross is not sufficient. In fact, The Pearls base much of their child training philosophy on 7 verses found in the book of Proverbs. A wisdom/poetry book, not a law book. Seven verses, taken out of context and poorly interpreted. Proverbs has a lot of interesting illustrations--such as holding a knife to our throat while we eat if we're prone to gluttony--but you don't see Christians taking those to the extreme level as so-called "Biblical Discipline". That's probably because it's poetry--it paints a word picture. But it most certainly is not a command. We need to look at the Bible as a whole. We need to interpret Scripture based off of the original intent. We need to ditch the Pearls and their ministry. Please do not buy this book. If you already own it, BURN IT. __________________ Carrie ~ ISFJ Evan ~ February 2008 Joshua ~ November 2009

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