Babywise

As a newbie, I have questions. But first I have to preface my questions by saying, I am not ok with the pearls teachings, I'm not ok with how they change scripture into something it's not. I love my 2 kids more than I can put into words. I have spanked at times and don't feel wrong for it. I nursed both of my babies and would have it no other way. So here's my questions, why is Babywise such a horrible book? I'm not totally ignorant to the flaws in that book, but I found so much useful info that helped me. AND, I didn't starve my babies, if they were hungry, I fed them more (or again). Question #2: shouldn't all of us parents have enough sense to realize when it's time to "quit following the particular book" and realize our children need something else, i.e. you are trying to get your baby on some sort of a schedule and feed them every 2 hours. Well, an hour later baby is crying and after investigating you realize that baby is hungry so here's where you take over n leave the book behind...you feed baby. Please understand I mean no sarcasm in this post, I really do want to hear perspectives. But I also ask that you see where I'm coming from. Thank you

[Kiara.I]

Question 1: Why is babywise such a horrible book? Well. There've been reams written on the topic. First of all, the newer editions have been toned down a lot from the earlier stuff, so depending on which edition you're reading you really may not have been exposed to some of stuff that people complain about. However, there's still plenty left.

For instance, the advice on feeding is not designed to stimulate mother's milk supply and allow baby and mother to reach a balance. *Some* women have an abundant enough supply that they can cope anyway--for a while. Some don't, and the advice in Babywise is sort of guaranteed to cause problems with supply.

Also, Babywise is full of straw man arguments. For instance, they argue against AP, define what it is (mostly incorrectly) and then talk about how awful it is. Well, yes, what they're describing in such gruesome detail *is* kind of awful--but it's not AP. So, it's illogical.

It's also divisive. It does not in any way promote unity among believers (or, in its secular incarnation, it doesn't really promote grace for other parenting styles.) It takes a very "this is THE way you must parent, anyone who does not parent this way is setting themselves up to have awful children." That's hardly a graceful approach, and shows a marked lack of humility.

And...well, you chose to disregard some of what Babywise said and to feed your children again when they were hungry. Great! Not every parent has that discernment, and some have chosen not to do that. "The program" is not conducive to learning to read your child's needs, and it can cause a great deal of distance and opposition between a parent and an infant who has no other resources upon which to rely.

Question 2: SHOULD we all have that much sense? Sure. But sometimes we're nervous and unsure, and an expert is happy to tell us what to do. Hey, that's what we mostly get taught in school, to find the "right" answer, and then do things the "right" way. It's pretty easy to get misled sometimes. People join cults. People get sucked into business scams. People get sucked into parenting scams. Many of us have "weak spots" where we don't see clearly. Parenting is a huge thing for that--hormones, lack of sleep, fears of what could happen if we get things wrong--it can be pretty tempting to rely on an "expert" to make everything better.

[SweetCaroline]

agree with the above.

i've learned in my life, that you cant assume people know anything

additionally, the type of people who want to be told exactly what to do, faaaar out weigh the type of people who feel confident enough to follow their gut . think: sleep training, vaccines, education...etc ..its annoying.

The book lies about how breastfeeding works. And it's so insidious--he couches the lie in something somewhat truthful do that it sounds right.

[HomeWithMyBabies]

If you have sense enough to stop following the book, you have sense enough not to need it in the first place.

[klpmommy]

www.ezzo.info

[CelticJourney]

First, many moms have read this book and done what you probably did - filtered, adapted, picked and chose what you wanted to do. All of which is good 'mommy filtering' but not acceptable if you truely embrace the Ezzo's teachings. I say this because I don't want you to take personally the explaination of 'why not Babywise'.

Usually when asked this questions I have to ask 'pick a category: physical, character or spiritual because the answer is a very big one.

Physically, Ezzo has absolutely no training in the medical field. Yes there technically is a co-author, but the first 'encarnations' (and there are many) of Babywise was a 'secularization' of Ezzo's Preparation for Parenthood religious based materials. So he has no credientals at all to be speaking about breastfeed or infant digestion other than his preference. The American Academy of Pediatrics has a statement out against just the kind of schedule feeding Ezzo advocates because babies were experiencing failture to thrive because of it.

Spiritual. For me I have a hard time seperating out the fact that the initial writings and Christian parallel (and there has always been a parallel set of books) emphasized God as the source of his teachings, but in an abusive and twisted way. Since we are talking specifically about Babywise, I won't go into all the scripture twisting and outright false teachings in those works, but I do think it is telling that what Ezzo endorses as 'Christian' can be stripped of all it's spiritual content if it means he can then sell is books to a secular audience - so how important was God truely in the program to begin with?

Character. Ezzo has been removed from leadership in several churches. Most telling to me is that he currently has no relationship with his grown children or grandchildren. As I said above, he changed his writings to sell more books. One former employee has verified that his 'reseach' is non-existant/made up and any attempts to talk to his 'panel of experts' is met with 'they are very busy people and don't have time for interviews'.

There is much to discuss regarding Ezzo, but in a nutshell, he is a prime example of an 'us against them' parenting perspective that does not connect well with a gospel that includes grace.

If you would like to read more, please check out www.Ezzo.info or we would be glad to walk through the issue with you here.

[Zooey]

Originally Posted by CelticJourney

First, many moms have read this book and done what you probably did - filtered, adapted, picked and chose what you wanted to do. All of which is good 'mommy filtering' but not acceptable if you truely embrace the Ezzo's teachings. I say this because I don't want you to take personally the explaination of 'why not Babywise'.

Usually when asked this questions I have to ask 'pick a category: physical, character or spiritual because the answer is a very big one.

Physically, Ezzo has absolutely no training in the medical field. Yes there technically is a co-author, but the first 'encarnations' (and there are many) of Babywise was a 'secularization' of Ezzo's Preparation for Parenthood religious based materials. So he has no credientals at all to be speaking about breastfeed or infant digestion other than his preference. The American Academy of Pediatrics has a statement out against just the kind of schedule feeding Ezzo advocates because babies were experiencing failture to thrive because of it.

Spiritual. For me I have a hard time seperating out the fact that the initial writings and Christian parallel (and there has always been a parallel set of books) emphasized God as the source of his teachings, but in an abusive and twisted way. Since we are talking specifically about Babywise, I won't go into all the scripture twisting and outright false teachings in those works, but I do think it is telling that what Ezzo endorses as 'Christian' can be stripped of all it's spiritual content if it means he can then sell is books to a secular audience - so how important was God truely in the program to begin with?

Character. Ezzo has been removed from leadership in several churches. Most telling to me is that he currently has no relationship with his grown children or grandchildren. As I said above, he changed his writings to sell more books. One former employee has verified that his 'reseach' is non-existant/made up and any attempts to talk to his 'panel of experts' is met with 'they are very busy people and don't have time for interviews'.

There is much to discuss regarding Ezzo, but in a nutshell, he is a prime example of an 'us against them' parenting perspective that does not connect well with a gospel that includes grace.

If you would like to read more, please check out www.Ezzo.info or we would be glad to walk through the issue with you here.

This.

[CelticJourney]

As to question 2 - if you mix young parents with little confidence and a spiritually twisted teaching, you end up with a program that instills parents with the idea that it is 'them' if it doesn't work, not that they should consider dropping the 'Godly' program. This is afterall a man who says that anyone who does not follow 'God's plan' ie 'his program' is not fully a Christian. They simply keep trying harder to 'do it right' and before long find themselves unable to trust their instincts.

On this aspect, I invite you to a book study we are doing in the Bible Study forum on the book The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. Next week we will be discussing what Jesus meant when he called the legalistic Pharasees 'vipers' - the snake was known for looking like a stick, looking like something usefully in the desert where protection via fire was needed very badly, but then they latched on and drained the victim of their very life. While it might not apply to you, many parents are desperate for help, seek something that looks useful like a 'Christian book on parenting' and by the time they realize it is not helpful, they have isolated friends who have tried to warn them and thrown away other tools that might have truely helped them.

[Katigre]

Welcome to the board! I've read Babywise so my comments below are based on the book/program directly and not internet quote/hearsay .

Originally Posted by zzubadoo

why is Babywise such a horrible book?

Here are the main issues I found when I read it:

1. It sets up false arguments and comparisons between 'babywised babies' and 'ap babies (or whatever he uses to compare it to). There is an underlying threat that if you do not follow his RIGHT WAY to parent, then your children will grow up to be disobedient/disrespectful/overtired/rebellious children. That sets up a culture of FEAR in vulnerable parents instead of giving them information and options.

2. He does not back up his advice with research/data and much of it is culturally driven (much of parenting is culturally driven, but a good author recognizes that and Ezzo sets up his principles as overarching through the ages). In addition, some things that are biologically driven (like a baby falling asleep after nursing) he says are unhealthy and wrong.

3. He sets up an adversarial relationship between parent/baby as well as between parents who follow his advice and those who don't. Any teaching that draws battle lines in that way (and mocks the other side - such as the way he made fun of babywearing) is not something I would follow.

Question #2: shouldn't all of us parents have enough sense to realize when it's time to "quit following the particular book" and realize our children need something else, i.e. you are trying to get your baby on some sort of a schedule and feed them every 2 hours. Well, an hour later baby is crying and after investigating you realize that baby is hungry so here's where you take over n leave the book behind...you feed baby. Please understand I mean no sarcasm in this post, I really do want to hear perspectives. But I also ask that you see where I'm coming from. Thank you

Not all parents have that common sense. I have known a few parents who Babywised and I have seen some that would not feed crying/fussy babies because 'it's not time for them to eat yet' and that baby would be clearly hungry and not fed.

I've also known more than one new mom who would be upset that their baby was not following the book, that things weren't working like he said, and they were very stressed trying to implement his ideas - they felt that he knew more than they did as unsure 1st time mothers, so they didn't listen to their own instincts and knowledge of their baby first and instead tried to fit the baby and their family rhythm into Ezzo's mold. This created a lot of unnecessary stress, frustration, and lack of joy in the first months of infancy - they were not empowered as parents to learn the ropes, they felt like failures for not attaining what he outlined in the book [NOTE: This can happen with *any* parenting method if a parent takes it the wrong way, but not all parenting booksk outline their teachings as the Truth That Must Be Followed Or ELSE like Ezzo does and the fear that they would mess up is part of the problem - and he directly encourages this fear in his writing tone].

I've also seen parents who used babywise who pulled just a few things from it and were very mainstream (they formula fed, so there was not the breastfeeding ruining angle to affect them, and they didn't cosleep. They did let their babies CIO from a young age but I have mainstream friends who did the same thing who weren't babywisers at all).

[ArmsOfLove]

I'm glad others are answering and I hope you're appreciating the answers. I hope you get the info you're looking for

I do want to address one thing from your post and I hope you can understand . . .

Please understand I mean no sarcasm in this post, I really do want to hear perspectives. But I also ask that you see where I'm coming from.

What you do in your own home is totally your business. What you post about on the board is where the posting guidelines come in. Please remember that Ezzo isn't supported here (and won't be publicly endorsed even in a "chew the meat spit out the bones" way). Many women come here to be in a safe place away from the encouragement (or even efforts to neutralize) things that deeply affected their lives. Ezzo is one of them. I hope you understand that efforts to help others see where you're coming from wrt Ezzo aren't going to really further this particular dialogue

As for why I have such a huge problem with Ezzo . . . the hours that I've spent helping families recovering from the toxicity of following his teachings is enough for me. The scripture twisting of God's Word in his religious materials leaves me righteously angry and his efforts to neutralize his religious foundation under the guise of "good sound parenting advice" is more than I can bear. His "history of parenting" styles (offered in older versions of his Prep stuff) stopped JUST SHORT of the generation that parented how he advocates for the first time and started the roller coaster of mess he claims he can fix

[tigerlily]

I'd like to answer your question from the perspective of a mom who is Not intuitively qued to her baby's needs.

For me, if I was not aware of some of the problems of Babywise before I became a parent, as well as familar with the ideals of AP, I probably would have followed a program like BW wholeheartedly. I don't do well discerning what a baby's various cries and noises mean. So if my baby had been hungry 2 hours after a feeding with 1 our to go, I would have probably let her cry on Ezzo's advice. I'm a rule follower, and if you give me a set of rules to follow, then I can do anything. That coupled with the uncontrollable feeling of dealing with a baby can be very comforting.

thankfully, I read other ideas before I became a mom (dr.sears, LLL). Understanding how breastfeeding works, that separation from mother is a very western ideal, etc, helped me make decisions early on that I have no regrets about. I very much doubt that if I had read BW and followed it's well-touted advice, that I would be able to say the same.

[klpmommy]

Originally Posted by Katigre

Not all parents have that common sense. I have known a few parents who Babywised and I have seen some that would not feed crying/fussy babies because 'it's not time for them to eat yet' and that baby would be clearly hungry and not fed. I've also known more than one new mom who would be upset that their baby was not following the book, that things weren't working like he said, and they were very stressed trying to implement his ideas - they felt that he knew more than they did as unsure 1st time mothers, so they didn't listen to their own instincts and knowledge of their baby first and instead tried to fit the baby and their family rhythm into Ezzo's mold. This created a lot of unnecessary stress, frustration, and lack of joy in the first months of infancy - they were not empowered as parents to learn the ropes, they felt like failures for not attaining what he outlined in the book

raises hand. that was me with P. And when it finally "worked" (at what cost?) I felt morally superior to all the uninformed. I followed his plan *to the letter*.

---------- Post added at 11:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

Originally Posted by tigerlily

I'd like to answer your question from the perspective of a mom who is Not intuitively qued to her baby's needs.

that was me, too. I am much better now at the intuitive understanding of what my baby needs. But since I like rules I kind of needed someone to tell me it was okay.

Ezzo does an incredible job of playing on parents' fears.

[ArmsOfLove]

I've known women who would wear headphones and blast music to not hear hours of their babies screaming, whose husbands would sit on them to keep them from going to their babies, whose children would vomit in bed from crying and not being responded to . . . a book is not deemed dangerous based on "people who don't listen to it", it is deemed dangerous based on its content and the damage that id done when people DO listen to it. If a book is only helpful when you DON'T listen to it . . . what's the point?

[katiekind]

Question #2: shouldn't all of us parents have enough sense to realize when it's time to "quit following the particular book" and realize our children need something else

One thing that influences some parents is that Ezzo convincingly argues that if parents stretch his program too far, they will be doing the very things he warns will ruin a child's character and lessens their opportunity to learn healthy sleep habits and independence. Those goals rank very high in Ezzo's paradigm, so if a parent has bought into that paradigm and those goals, they have a hard time letting go.