making an idol of your children?

[daina]

I have expressed/asked about this before in another thread, but I just feel confused and conflicted about this.

I was talking with a friend today about how I maybe seem to others like I'm not a totally committed christian because I dont make it to all the church services. I miss because I dont want to leave my kid to cry in the nursery, and its often easier for me to stay home and nurse my son while he sleeps and I watch our church service through livestream than to go and sit in nursery with a whiny tired frustrated baby.

She confessed that the way she sees it, this could be a misalignment of priorities wherein I am putting my child before God or potentially making an idol of my family.


But how do you keep the priorities straight to bring glory to god in the endless hours of breastfeeding and when you choose to not hear the sermon for the sake of your children? Extended and co-sleeping do produce a child that needs their mother more. Right now I am working through the fact that DS does not sleep(at all...) without being latched. Nobody else can put him to sleep, so I always have him with me.

More than one person in my church has mentioned to us that my parenting style could be out of balance. I just feel like AP families maybe look different from the norm sometimes. For example, DH and I do not go to couples retreats that the church holds or the monthly couples outreach date nights because we like to keep our son with us, while most the other families with babies are able to leave them easily.

Any advice on dealing with the stigma? Or experience of your own personal struggles to maintain God in His proper position in your heart while devoting so much sacrifice and time to your children?

[MegMarch]

This was something I struggled with as well. Not so much because of my own relationship with DH and my baby, but outside voices. Here are some of the things that I found comfort in realizing:

1. Babies are needy. Needy like mad, and babyhood lasts awhile. But not forever. DH and I adjusting stuff to meet an infant's needs is temporary, not idolatry.

2. Mamas and babies have a connection. It's not one of worship but of hormones and emotions that, imo, are God-given. Ignoring those to attend services that are culturally expected isn't sinful or wrong. We have that connection to help us to love our children the way God loves us.

3. Other people don't have to agree with me. They might think really bad stuff about me. Those feelings and thoughts are not my concern. I can be polite, engage in conversation if understanding is sought, but I don't own anyone a defense of my beliefs and it's not my responsibility to sway them to my beliefs.

Again, babyhood and childhood are temporary. Developmental growth occurs so fast. There's no benefit in pushing it, and there is potential harm in pushing it. Allowing babies and children the chance to grow into independence, ability to sit still and be quiet, desire to join their church community and serve others, those things are not idolatry or sin.

Neither is allowing families time to connect as small units, or refuel through time to rest. In fact, I think more churches should reach out to young families by offering a delivered meal, lawn care, or grocery delivery instead of babysitting and shaming them when they don't want it.

[Soliloquy]

To me, it seems like your church is making an idol of their culture and preferences. No where in the Bible are we commanded or even encouraged to put children in the nursery, go to couple's retreats, or even to have the all sacred weekly date night. (Pardon the sarcasm.)

If some people get a benefit from those things, okay. They're cultural norms, though. I feel quite confident that Mary did not put Jesus in a nursery or go on a couple's retreat.

The home was the center of spiritual life.

---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------

My phone ate half my post.

Deut 6:7 clearly instructs parents to talk about God's teaching to their children as they go about their day. It was assumed that children were with their parents.

Nurseries and couple's retreats are modern inventions. And they can be great! But they are OPTIONAL, like TV and Facebook. You can follow God's instructions for parents and wives without ever using a nursery or attending a retreat.

If you are looking to win the approval of men, then you should do what they do. If you're looking to follow God, then you often have to fact-check what the cultural church puts out aa list of "shoulds."

[daina]

Originally Posted by MegMarch

1. Babies are needy. Needy like mad, and babyhood lasts awhile. But not forever. DH and I adjusting stuff to meet an infant's needs is temporary, not idolatry.

Sometimes you just kind of doubt yourself when other babies and toddlers who are maybe weaned and sleep o. their own just dont seem needy like yours does.

Originally Posted by MegMarch

2. Mamas and babies have a connection. It's not one of worship but of hormones and emotions that, imo, are God-given. Ignoring those to attend services that are culturally expected isn't sinful or wrong. We have that connection to help us to love our children the way God loves us.

Here is where i see the stigma... the cultural expectation to attend all the services is equated to ones individual walk and faithfulness to the Lord and their measure of progress of growth and sanctification

Originally Posted by MegMarch

3. Other people don't have to agree with me. They might think really bad stuff about me. Those feelings and thoughts are not my concern. I can be polite, engage in conversation if understanding is sought, but I don't own anyone a defense of my beliefs and it's not my responsibility to sway them to my beliefs.

I tend to waver and doubt and sometimes be double minded about my conviction to AP, especially with being confronted by other opinions(even moreso when those opinions come from those who are in authority in the church). Coming from hippie background where everyone APs, cosleeps and does extended bfing, i get confused sometimes thinking I just do it because I still got a lot of hippie in me

(convicted by james 1:6-8)

Thanks for your reply

[rdsmommy]

IMHO taking care of your children is an act of worship to God. You are being a good steward of the gift he has given you. You are fulfilling the command to be fruitful and multiply. You are witnessing to your child. You are sharing God's love with them in one of the most tangible ways for them. You are showing them how a loving parent takes care of them just like God does.At this stage in life this is your calling. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[WanderingJuniper]

Originally Posted by daina

Here is where i see the stigma... the cultural expectation to attend all the services is equated to ones individual walk and faithfulness to the Lord and their measure of progress of growth and sanctification


Thanks for your reply

And nowhere in the Bible is that the standard of spiritual maturity and sanctification. It's just not.

Yes, people can make an idol of their children. However it is not small things. You are not worshipping your child when you understand and meet their needs. On the contrary, you are worshiping the Creator God who is the ultimate parent.

Small children are a season. Chuch attendance is not what makes a faithful Christian.

--interrupted cooking dinner & belong with homework ---

[daina]

Originally Posted by WanderingJuniper

Yes, people can make an idol of their children. However it is not small things. You are not worshipping your child when you understand and meet their needs. On the contrary, you are worshiping the Creator God who is the ultimate parent.

I could uderstand idolizing a child as trying to make them some kind of star(singing, acting, modeling, whatever), or focusing too much on their sports or hobby at the expense of spiritual things. But some see it as BFing a toddler til their 3, cosleeping bc you don't want to let em CIO, choosing gbd instead of spanking or just missing church sometimes bc its too challenging for your family.

It comes down to what soliloquy said... am I looking to please God or man?

[Katigre]

Originally Posted by daina

Sometimes you just kind of doubt yourself when other babies and toddlers who are maybe weaned and sleep o. their own just dont seem needy like yours does.

Just an anecdote about this from someone a little further down the line in parenting.

As babies and young toddlers, my kids were 'high maintenance' for people who watched them who weren't me - they were very attached to me and needed to nurse, didn't take bottles, they didn't sleep in a crib alone, putting them to bed was time intensive, etc...

But as preschoolers and big kids? They are a BREEZE for whoever watches them. They are helpful, kind, and listen well to their teachers and grandparents. I regularly get complimented on their behavior by strangers even though they've never been spanked. They separate from me easily, have a fun time being babysat, and are happy to see me when I get home.

DS 4 and DD2 go to childcare all day once a week while I teach in the same building. Their teacher commented to me last week that they were so easy to take care of during the day and that they're emotionally well-regulated, calm, eager to play, and independent. When they were babies in the nursery, they were not really any of those things!

I believe who they are now is the direct fruit of a lot of intensive parenting in the early years (both AP and consistent discipline - setting boundaries and following through on them plus emotional coaching).

Really and truly - I often have people comment on how capable my kids are, and I see the fruit of being intentional to meet their needs in the early years.

Idolatry is worshipping something more than God, and that is not what it sounds like you're doing.

DH and I found that we didn't need regular date nights away from DS1 when he was our only child, b/c it was pretty simple to maintain balance and connection with each other. If we went out, we brought DS1 and it was still a great time.

Once we had multiple children then we found that we needed to set aside one-on-one time more regularly (not every week dates though), and so we would do that and only bring along the baby that couldn't be away from mom yet.

When our youngest DD was over 2 years old, we were able to go away overnight and that was really nice . But we also knew that the day we got back there would be a lot more reconnection time needed from our little ones to 'make-up for' the time away.

FWIW, I have known AP families who were out of balance . It's entirely possible. But "not making it to every church service, of which there are 3+ per week" isn't what I would call 'out of balance' .

[CelticJourney]

I image you feel very isolated in such a community/culture and it is easy to doubt yourself. If you go and read the history of this community, it was born out of just the same feelings - of isolation. You are not making an idol of your child. Church attendence is not Godly in and of itself. And as others have already said, your church has made their 'church culture' an idol and it came come dangerously close to 'adding millstones to little ones' that Jesus warned against.

[charla]

The Bible is clear that children are blessings from the Lord. I want to cherish, love and take care of those blessings in gratitude to God and as an act of worship. I firmly believe that my main ministry is to my family at this time in my life. And like pp said, this season in life is not forever. I also personally could not attend a church that didn't also allow my children in the worship service. Jesus welcomed all children and told us not to hinder them coming to him.

For my personal experience, parenting specifically in a grace-based way has more than anything in my life pushed me to a closer relationship with God. It has been a catalyst for me to search the scripture, to shift my paradigm from a punitive God to a God of grace. It has pointed out to me the parts of my life that aren't surrendered to God. It has pointed out where I am not God-like in my attitudes and responses. I have felt the need to rely even more on God as the seriousness of the responsibility of parenting has been impressed upon me. And for all of that, I'm so grateful to God for allowing parenting my children to know him better and to draw me to him in an intimate way.

Originally Posted by daina

But how do you keep the priorities straight to bring glory to god in the endless hours of breastfeeding and when you choose to not hear the sermon for the sake of your children? Extended and co-sleeping do produce a child that needs their mother more. Right now I am working through the fact that DS does not sleep(at all...) without being latched. Nobody else can put him to sleep, so I always have him with me.

This can be such a hard, exhausting time. It definitely tested my ability to be self-sacrificing. But the foundation that you set now will make for a strong, independent, healthy child in the future. Even though it seems like breastfed and ap children need their mother more, research shows that these children grow to be even more independent, well-adjusted than those who don't have ready access to their mothers.

I would definitely encourage you to try not to let people get in your head. It's hard, I know. And I would encourage you to seek God in this matter and trust what he says to your heart.

Save

[Little Forest]

Taking a step back, how incredibly rude of people to tell you this. And absolutely not true.

It sounds like a particularly rigid mindset is a part of this congregation's culture and others feel they need to enforce it on you.

Just want to put it out there that you are free to choose another church if you ever feel that would be of spiritual benefit to you. There is no law that says husbands and wives must attend the same church, although this is commonly done, but I have known couples that attended different churches.

You might do better to go anywhere else where children and motherhood is not seen in this very narrow way which obviously does not mesh with your mothering instincts (which are God given, I might add).

I will tell you something. I am a convert to traditional Catholicism. We do not have nurseries and my congregation has little tolerance for noise inside of mass. So, I have to step out with infants and toddlers who are distracting for the benefit of the priest and parishioners who are focusing on the mass at hand. I was told by the priest that even when I am not inside, I am still "assisting in the mass," by fulfilling my duties as a mother. For years I felt like I was dressing up to nurse a baby in the backroom and take little girls to the toilet nonstop and really didn't get in on much in the church. But it all "counts" as fulfilling the duty to go to church (which I might add is seen as an obligation, not optional to make it to Sunday mass without a good reason to miss.) And traditional Catholics are *not* known for AP and gentle parenting.

I know this isn't your background, but wanted to give you my perspective and experience. I am sorry that people in your church are sounding very unsupportive and unhelpful to you as a new mother. Not all churches are like that at all.

[Aerynne]

I think your church is out of balance, not your parenting style.

Even for my church (which is much more A.P.-friendly than yours is from the sound of it- for instance all kids go to the service with their parents and if there is a retreat, they let you bring your baby or at least understand that with a baby you may not be able to come) I am more A.P. than the norm. My kids do not go to the nursery (which is during Sunday School and doesn't start until 18 months- before that all kids stay with their parents) but no one really cares. When they are old enough for kids' Sunday School then they go but if they want me to I come with them. But they do eventually grow into going into classes on their own- in fact all four of mine go to class on their own and love it now!

I guess what I'm trying to say is those differences are greatest when they are babies and won't be a big deal (or barely perceptible) as they get older.

I know of no verse in the Bible that says that listening to the sermon on livestream is any less righteous than sitting in a pew- the pews are not magic, you know. Fellowshipping is a great reason to go to the actual church, but when you can you can, and when you can't, you can't. I wouldn't go with a baby if I had to leave them. The only reason I go with my babies is because they are welcome in the service.

[daina]

Originally Posted by Aerynne

Even for my church (which is much more A.P.-friendly than yours is from the sound of it- for instance all kids go to the service with their parents and if there is a retreat, they let you bring your baby or at least understand that with a baby you may not be able to come) I am more A.P. than the norm. My kids do not go to the nursery (which is during Sunday School and doesn't start until 18 months- before that all kids stay with their parents) but no one really cares. When they are old enough for kids' Sunday School then they go but if they want me to I come with them. But they do eventually grow into going into classes on their own- in fact all four of mine go to class on their own and love it now!

That sounds great! Nursery only beginning at 18 mos and still optional.... My question is: in the churches where kids are very welcome to stay in the service, is there a high expectation for a standard of behavior? I have read before that in some family integrated churches, children are held to very high expectation of quietness in the service, wherein sometimes these churches have "spanking rooms" for the kids who dont behave.

Kids go with their parents Sunday nights at our church as there is no kids church sunday nights.... But it seeems theres not much tolerance for the real littles(toddlers and babies) who are seen as a distraction, so there is nursery(for birth-3rd birthday)(which, as I've discussed in another post, my son thouroughly dislikes).

I havent felt so much that people are trying to boss us around or tell us what to do. But I sometimes take things too personal when they just share their opinion.

---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Aerynne

I know of no verse in the Bible that says that listening to the sermon on livestream is any less righteous than sitting in a pew- the pews are not magic, you know. Fellowshipping is a great reason to go to the actual church, but when you can you can, and when you can't, you can't.

The verse most would use is Heb 10:25.

---------- Post added at 10:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 PM ----------

Any advice on how to help a toddler sit through a service using gentle parenting?

[Aerynne]

Originally Posted by daina

That sounds great! Nursery only beginning at 18 mos and still optional.... My question is: in the churches where kids are very welcome to stay in the service, is there a high expectation for a standard of behavior? I have read before that in some family integrated churches, children are held to very high expectation of quietness in the service, wherein sometimes these churches have "spanking rooms" for the kids who dont behave.

Kids go with their parents Sunday nights at our church as there is no kids church sunday nights.... But it seeems theres not much tolerance for the real littles(toddlers and babies) who are seen as a distraction, so there is nursery(for birth-3rd birthday)(which, as I've discussed in another post, my son thouroughly dislikes).

I havent felt so much that people are trying to boss us around or tell us what to do. But I sometimes take things too personal when they just share their opinion.

My church discourages spanking. Some people still do it, though. There would certainly never be a spanking room at church. We do have a "mothers' room" for moms to nurse or take a baby who needs a quiet place to fall asleep (depending on how many people are in there it isn't always quiet, though. It has comfy rocking chairs, a changing table, a sink with soap and paper towels, and a full-length mirror [which I always use to make sure I'm "put back together" after nursing in there]. I do nurse other places in the church, too, as do others, but that room is available for those who want it). People take very disruptive kids out of the service (screaming, shouting, etc) but for the most part you expect little kid noises and kids have snacks and coloring books or whatever quiet toys their parents want to bring for them. Our church loves kids and people have a lot of them, so tolerance is high for kids and their behavior, though we do try to get them to be quiet by gentle methods or just taking them out into the hall if they are not quiet.

[daina]

when i do take my son into the service now, since i do it so rarely, he thinks its a novelty and wants to run around... when he is in the worship sanctuary when its not service time he gets a kick out of running up and down the pews, but during service, I think he just likes to see all the people. Honestly, I think hed be much happier in the service with the adults and singing the songs.Being in a little room with 10 other babies and toddlers is just very strange to him. A lot of times if he was in the nursery and I take him out into the hall during service, he just tries over and over to go into the sanctuary where all the grownups are.